What Would It Take For You To Stop Pirating?

We may not agree with the RIAA on much, but today they made a surprising statement that we can actually get on board with: innovation is the best way to stop piracy. Our question for you is: What kind of innovation would get you to stop downloading media illegally?

The statement was hidden away in a much longer article about the impact of their anti-piracy efforts — which TorrentFreak argues is more than a little misleading — but at least they're acknowledging that draconian business models are not going to get them out of this mess.

So, for you pirates out there: What kind of innovations would get you to go legal? Or, for the less anonymous among you: what kind of innovations do you think would be the most effective at curbing piracy? Lower prices? Less DRM? A bigger selection on online services? Let us know in the comments below. And, while you're at it, hit the link to read the RIAA's statement, and TorrentFreak's response.

The Evidence of Anti-Piracy's Impact Continues To Mount [RIAA Music Notes Blog via TorrentFreak]


    If say for $15 a month i had unlimited access to TV shows capable of being streamed to any device I own id stop downloading. However Id want access as soon as it airs in the US not wait 6 months for it to be eventually aired in Australia...
    Movies the same deal and make em a bit cheaper...
    Then all we need is more ISPs to embrace the "this service does not count towards your downloads" and id never download much again...

      Why does it matter that you have to wait 6 months to see it here? I've never understood this. I sometimes wait years to buy a book but that doesn't lessen the enjoyment of it one bit. Same with films, I'll often skip them at the movies and watch them on DVD 6 or 12 months later and they are just as enjoyable. Hell, even 50 year old films can be as entertaining as they were the day of release. You must hate end of season cliffhangers.

        Because if they're released in America why should we have to wait 6 months for it to be here, especially since we can use the pirate bay to get it as soon as it airs.

          That's a bit of an odd logic. It's kinda saying 'I'm pirating because someone else is getting it before me, and I don't like it'.

          I think people need to explain themselves a bit better. Most of these shows are marketed by creating an online hype. People don't want to be excluded by having missed watching a show which gets a lot of social network time. That's what this is all about, people feeling excluded because they haven't been able to see a show that others are talking about.

          However, this is more about the insecurities that we have as people, more than it is about the success of the marketing of a program.

            If you are the kind of person that can't read spoilers, you basically can't go on the internet for six months for fear of finding out how the show ends.

            Alternatively if you do go on the internet, some nice person probably uploaded the thing you're looking for and you don't have to give up your daily internet fix after all.

            It's not odd at all. Like many young Aussies, I've traveled pretty extensively. Like most internet geeks - I have a lot of friends from years online who are outside of my current country of residence. Like most normal human beings, We talk about the books we're reading and the shows we're watching and pop culture.

            I'm a pop culture geek, so I read the blogs and news releases for shows that I love. To participate in those conversations and enjoy that supporting content - I have to watch the show at least approximately on the same schedule as the primary releases.

            And there's no good reason to not do simultaneous release. The staggered geographic releases made sense when you had to ship physical media to remote locations. Now it's just in place as a legacy agreement that needs to go away. There's no technical reason why Son's of Anarchy can't air on Foxtel 12 hours after it airs on FX USA. I'm fine paying with cable if i'm not getting screwed in the process.

            I couldn't care less about the social network time that my favourite show is getting, I want to watch it once it's released, not have to wait 6months+ for living in Australia, what's so wrong about that?

          Wow, what a genius response.

        It's much harder to avoid spoilers.

          That, and it's the insulting nature of it. "No, you're not important enough for us to bother getting this to you in a timely manner."
          We know it can be done, because some shows and movies do it. Others drag their feet for months, which is inexcusable in a world of digital media. It smacks of laziness.

            I have seen some foolish comments in my time, but god dame you near on take the cake. its not, "insulting", "laziness", its called money, geographical location and time of year to increase money.

          And if you want to participate in the community discussion etc then you have to see it when everyone else does. Global community = need for global releases.

            Cheshire Cat, I'd suggest you get a life if that is a serious comment.

              Hmmmm..... You insulted Cheshire Cat for wanting to be part of community discussions...
              but you yourself have posted 12 times just on this story...

              seems like you should get a life.

              Motormouth, I don't think Cheshire has really articulated well what he is trying to say.

              As I stated up above, these shows are marketed by their social standing. Missing out on the show that many others have already seen makes us feel insecure. Hence why so many stations have used the 'Must see TV' byline. The social standing of a program is huge.

              This largely tells more about our insecurities, sure, but TV producers play on those insecurities to market such programs. In Cheshire cat's situation, it's backfired on the TV companies, as it has become a major motivator for him to do what appears to be a harmless 'doing the wrong thing'.

                Personally, I don't see it as being so much about our "insecurities" about not having seen a TV show. I think it's more about the fact that when something is released, we want to watch it. I'm a huge fan of Doctor Who, and I download the episodes weekly not because I fear others will judge me for not having seen it, but because I love Doctor Who and simply want to watch it. I think you're overanalysing peoples reasons for downloading TV shows - we want to watch it, we are able to watch it therefore we watch it.

                  That is it. That is 100% of it. I like shows from all over the world. Some I get locally, others are blocked from me or delayed to me because of where I live ?!?!?!? This is the 21st century and that is simply ridiculous. People torrent to circumvent ridiculous and arbitrary distribution blockages.

              That was a perfectly serious comment!
              I know lots of people discussed and hypothesised about LOST when it was big... Or go back even further to cliffhangers like "who shot me burns". Who doesn't like discussing things they are interested in with like minded people?
              They aren't called water cooler moments or water cooler shows because people don't like discussing them.
              As iikimochi said, you are participating in this community discussion an awful lot (especially when piracy is involved... We know your position.. Crappy band no one likes...years of music industry blahblahblah)
              You sir.....are an idiot.

          How so? I've never found that at all and IMDB is one of my most visited websites.

            Well, if you've never had that problem, I guess that means no one else has either.

        The movie may still be enjoyable later but is knowing that some other country gets to enjoy it now? (especially when it's full of people who will talk about with spoiler et al)

          Its irrelevant. Someone will be watching it on a bigger TV than mine, with a better home theatre system, too, and that is about equally relevant to my personal enjoyment of any programme.

            After reading through the comments, i've decided I don't care. If I can get it for free, I will continue to do so. Every single comment by MotorMouth shows what the industry wants. They want an answer that suits them, not suits the consumer.

            Your comparison is not apt. Whether you have a 'bigger system' is dictated by yourself and your money, for your reasons.
            Something being released in one country and then having a huge delay for practically no reason is not the same. Nobody here is pirating because their neighbors have a bigger TV.

            Scenario : I'm watching a TV series, I want to know what happens next, Australia has a habit of airing one episode, waiting a couple weeks, airing another, waiting a month even or just stopping arbitrarily throughout a season, on the other side of the world, not only are the episodes aired in a weekly succession, they are 2 entire seasons ahead. Explain again WHY I should have to wait for an identical service, even though I have pay-tv when in all likelyhood I'll be waiting 2 years before I'm up to date with what was released 4 years ago. In the meantime I'm paying month in month out for this so called 'premium' TV experience.


        Motormouth, you really need a life. Just to watch a stupid entertainment, you going to keep checking when show airs on TV. When your network bought TV right. After that set a reminder for day of air or keep DVD in wish list when it launches. Then find a way to get a good deal on some occasion. Really? Just watch the damn show and move on. I know I am not going to watch that same episode twice. Its entertainment and you are trying to make ENTERTAINMENT hard to use. WOW!

        Because then the hype of the movie may pass, other things will come up, and they won't feel motivated to see it then. Some may come back to some particular movies months later for whatever reason, but in the most part, people just feel left out because it's not available to them then and there. Yes your arguement is selfless and mine is selfish, but the whole world is pretty selfish

        When we live outside the country where a show is broadcasted and you are fan, it is impossible to avoid spoilers from the news portals yahoo, msn, etc. Facebook pages, twitter feeds, etc. Fan forums, blogs; a day after the premiere of Two and half men I already knew the plot, read critics, etc. It took 4 months before it aired in my country. Time in movies, books and music dosen't really matter.



      I would require a music & TV downloading service that airs US stuff when it is originally airing in the US. I would require that my ISP allow this content to go unmetered. I would require for there to be minimal DRM so that I can convert the show/song for my devices (or for there to be downloadable copies in different file types that are compatible with my devices).

      I don't download that much, but the things I do download are usually foreign or just airing in the US. I generally don't listen to mainstream music, so your normal music stores like Sanity and HMV do nothing for me and I think that $40 for a DVD is way too expensive. I generally don't buy CDs and would prefer to pay a fee or donation directly to the artist or to a service to be able to download a file, and I do download in FLAC when I can. If the iTMS dropped their prices & offered FLAC/ALAC I'd potentially have another look at it, since they removed DRM a while ago.

      My most recent downloads have been Chuck seasons 1-5 & Triple J Hottest 100 Volume 19. Since then I've bought the Chuck S01-04 box set AND the Hottest 100 V19 CD. Chuck S05 DVD comes out in May & when it does, I'll more than likely buy that too because it's quality TV.

    Timing and portability offline... I already pay $100 a month for foxtel.

    Hard to say. I pirate video games from time to time, because we pay literally double US prices for them here - unless they're reasonably priced or I'm really, really into that franchise/game, then generally, I'll pirate it.

    Music, I hardly pirate at all anymore, unless it's unavailiable through legal means - it's more convenient to just buy it from Itunes or Google Play/Music.

    The only other thing I'll pirate on occasion are E-books. And even then, only in one of five Scenarios 1)The book isn't available digitally in Australia, and the print copy is ludicrously overpriced
    2)The book isn't available digitally in Australia, and the print copy is either impossible to find or simply not available
    3)The book isn't available digitally, and is out of print, but not yet out of copyright.
    4)I already own the book in print, but I want an electronic copy for whatever reason, usually to make it easier to travel with, or I want to keep the print copy in the best condition possible.
    5)I really, really don't want to give the author/their estate/whoever ends up with the cash my money, because either they've written a terrible book not worth paying for, or they're just a horrible person. For example, I don't buy Orson Scott Card books, because he's very vocally homophobic, but I do pirate them. I pirated Ayn Rand's books, because she's a god-awful writer, and her books are the most torturous garbage ever put to paper, they're even worse than Twilight.

      With respect to Churba, I disagree with reason 5 for pirating ebooks (and I hope he clarifies with a reply). If I don't want to support an author, I just will refuse to read their garbage. I don't feel it gives me the right to pirate their work. I think it would mean more to say "I don't read anything by Orson Scott Card because he's a homophobe. I won't even read something I could get for free from him."

      Other than that, +1

      You do realise that by pirating games, you are in fact helping to increase the price of games right?

        Maybe so, but that does not explain why we pay around double the price for the same product that is released overseas. The fact that it's such a blatant rip-off just encourages people to pirate.

          distribution costs for suppliers, retail overheads, market forces, etc.
          also for other people currency values have little to nothing to do with the cost of games in Australia.

          also in regards to new release games the difference in price is on average around $20. which is about what you would pay for any decent shipping speed.

            Are you serious? I buy all my games, and I only ever buy them on ebay from PAL based countries in Europe (mostly the UK). It can be about $40 for a game with express 3-4 day delivery or $100 in JB Hi-Fi for the EXACT SAME GAME. No real excuse especially when major retailers ship and buy in bulk.

    make games, music, movies tv shows cheaper and dont make us wait 6-8 months for it, give us netflix in australia, the same as the us for the same price, our donwloads can handle it, well mine can, i can download movies faster then i can watch them

    $3 per album with option to donate more directly to artist. $6 per TV season. $4 for movies. All to own and no DRM. If you think I'm being unreasonable, they are competing with Free. They can accept this or continue to live in the past. Consumers won't change, they must.

      You do understand that it can cost upwards of $1million per episode to make a good TV show. Would you be willing to accept shows of lesser quality for $3, because that is precisely why TV schedules are full of low-cost reality shows instead of great drama, or do you expect studios to lose money so that you can be entertained?

        Because Steam sales don't generate more revenue for games than when they're at full price amirite?

        When the potential market is numbered in the billions I don't think his figures are too low. I personally would pay more but that's not the point..... Lower prices = more customers. And if steam is anything to go by it also equals greater overall revenue.

          Shall I tell you the story of the music man?

            Ummmm no idea what you're on about so.... Sure, tell me a story.

              well it depends which interpretation we are going for here. do we go for the "conman" version or do we go for the" to make things cheaper at expense of quality version"

        Get a life MotorMouth, we were asked what we wanted - not a million dumb suggestions by you about why it won't work. Oh, and you're wrong.

        You seem to be forgetting that THIS is currently happening. At the moment people are pirating, and getting these TV shows for free - they are ALREADY losing money. Something needs to be done, and holding onto the old mindset of "people should pay full price for their shows" simply will not work. Change needs to happen.

          you clearly do not run a business, or if you do you seem to suffer the mentality that "I can charge you full price, but you can't charge me full price"

        The current revenue they are getting i s $0 from the people that currently watch illegally distributed content. So either the % of people that watch the illegally distributed content are having a large enough impact on the total revenue that the (TV/Movie) companies are making, to stop creating the shows or it's not.

        In the case where they are perceived to not have an impact, the studios / distributors have the option of making some revenue of some portion of the people who are currently paying $0.

        In the case where they are perceived to be having an impact, they have the option of making lower budget shows to match the price point that people are happy to pay.

        If there is demand, supply will follow. People will be willing to pay the extra to get better shows. I don't believe the majority of people want something for nothing. The majority of people also don't want to feel like they are being ripped off, or undervalued as customers which at least the majority of people commenting on this post seem to feel.

        As for me, well I am a supporter of the GPL (gnu.org) so it would be hypocritical of me to expect people to abide by a copyright license if I didn't respect others copyright. So well, I just plain miss out...However if any company is willing to stream me some DRM free content to whatever device I choose I'll gladly give em AUD $15/M ..maybe then i can see what all the fuss is about.

        Even Itunes does single episodes for 2.99 for f***'s sake. Someone's getting their moneys worth at $3 a pop.

    Make the media available to Australia for a fair price. Insane that a product on US itunes is not available in the itunes Aus store, or that a series is only available to U.S. citizens.

      its called licensing, classification etc etc... research before you post.

        What's classification got to do with anything? When was the last time a tv show on US iTunes was banned in oz? And the regional licensing is exactly what he's complaining about.
        Are you actually motormouth?

        I swear you are an iTunes rep. C'mann, just admit it ;)

    I don't pirate anything ever, I always pay for everything.

      Until the MPAA (etc) shows up at my door, I'll continue enjoying my internet connection the way it was supposed to be enjoyed...for FREE.
      Yo Ho! A pirates life for me!

      I wish I had the money to do that. If I didn't have the option to pirate, I would be a very, very bored person a lot of the time....

    I pirate as little as possible these days and if I do, I have a very complex justification, found below:
    TV Shows - TV Rips only, if these aren't available DVD Rip or I don't do it at all
    Movies - DVD Rips, no Blu-Ray and once the film becomes a reasonable price (>$20) I'll purchase it
    Games - I don't pirate games at all, simply because I know there are the crackers who will also include trojans, plus no-one makes games for Mac anyway.

    For me to stop pirating, availability in AU needs to increase. I recently came across the first season of Psych at JB Hifi, at $50. The show is now up to season 6 and there is no way the first season is worth $50 for me to purchase, it's good, but not that good. That's the main problem with AU piracy IMO is that we simply don't get access to good television/movies until well after they are released and when we do, the price is jacked up which buggers everything up.
    A service similar to Hulu would also get me to stop pirating anything

      What would it take for people to stop pirating? Continue to make crappy movies that I have no desire to see, keep repackaging big budget films that tell the same basic story as "reboots" and "homages", continue to produce music that has little to no appeal, and keep making games that have no shelf life.

      I stopped pirating a long time ago because it's well within my budget to spend money on entertainment that actually grabs my attention. If I see a movie I paid for, at least I can legitimately complain that the studio owes me that 90 minutes of my life back, if I download it for free I'm watching it at my own peril.

      I think if the movie and music industry continue to go in the direction they're going, piracy will eventually not be a problem. People will realize that even their bandwidth is not worth the price of the lackluster crap that's out there.

    timely access, versatile format, non credit card means to purchase, and a fair price, preferably a subscription

    Probably nothing I've grown too accustom to it. :)

    make things globally available, get rid of the regioning (that is old school thinking and from my point of view doesnt increase or maintain sales, it just pisses people off). Stop treating countries other than US and Europe as fodder. It would be nice to be able to get stuff in Australia around the same time as the USA. Stop charging exorborent prices in countries other than the states, a lot of people will buy where it is the cheapest (even if it means going to thailand to pay $3 for the latest pirated movies, or by using channel BT!!!!).

    in short:

    Just release everything in a timely manner and stop charging ridiculously high prices (IE: making things affordable) and piracy will drop (you will never get rid of it) and STOP bombarding us with anti-piracy messages especially on tv series dvd's. I have ripped them just to get rid of those!!!

    PS: USA, australia has quiet a high tech/lifestyle pickup compared to the rest of the world (even apple has learned this lesson with things like the iPad and iPhone).

      So what? Australia is only about 8% of the size of the US market, making it largely irrelevant when it comes to recouping production and distribution costs. Why do so many sheeple struggle with this concept?

        We are still here and we are still a viable market. Your argument is void.
        Money is money. Companies are not going to ignore this.

        In that case, our pirating shouldn't really impact them all that much.

          True, but that doesn't make it any less criminal, nor should it.

            It's not a criminal offence, it's a copyright infringement. You don't seem to know what you're talking about, now go away.

            It is not criminal. It is Copyright Infringement which is a civil matter. The owner can sue for damages and/or loss of income, but you cannot go to jail.

            Well I can choose what to do with my money and I choose not to support crap business models.

        That's also an equally effective argument for why its OK to pirate here. If we're too small to provide a proper service, then don't bother and just let us pirate.

        And dude, you way over use the word sheeple. If it has any meaning at all, surely it would apply to the people who are paying for content even though the service is better if you steal it, because that's the law.

          NO, that is the same argument a drug addict might use for breaking, entering and stealing from a wealthy household, as opposed to a poor person's home or that stealing a car from a two car household is a lesser crime than stealing one from a single car home. It doesn't lessen the criminality of the act at all. If something is not available here, you can easily purchase it from overseas, I do it all the time. If you cannot get it at all, then wait until it is available legally or go without out. Again, I do that all the time, it is hardly the end of the world and it certainly doesn't justify theft.

            I think I disagree with everything you have to say MotorMouth.
            With digital distribution the cost of distribution is effectively zero.
            Downloading a movie is not theft, Wikipedia defines theft as:
            "In common usage, theft is the taking of another person's property without that person's permission or consent with the intent to deprive the rightful owner of it."
            USLegal defines it as:
            "Knowingly obtains or exerts unauthorized control over the property of another, with intent to deprive the owner of his or her property;"
            The last sentence is important more specifically "deprive the owner of his or her property;"
            When you download a movie you are not depriving that person of that movie.
            This is in contrast to theft of a movie in a retail store in which case you are depriving the store of that movie.
            You could argue that (by pirating a movie) your depriving studios of lost revenue but that would suggest that everyone who pirates a movie would have purchased it, which simply isn’t true.
            I don't think piracy is criminal for the same reason breaking a contract is not criminal, because when it comes down it that all you’re doing breaking a contract(to view the content more times than you have paid for)
            I’m not saying piracy isn’t wrong, but neither is breaking a contract. However it is not criminal.

            People are going to go for the most convenient route. Your ways are old and cumbersome. This is why we are trying to brainstorm ways to make things better. You seem to be happy with the status quo - and that's why you don't pirate. But you're different to us. Trying to tell us we should be going to great lengths to get entertainment when we already do it in a totally convenient and easy way is like saying people should hand wash their clothes when they've been using a washing machine their whole life. It's retroactive. We're looking for solutions. You're trying to defend the problems.

            Thanks for your useless comments in this thread. Where are your suggestions? Clearly you believe the status quo should remain and people should just obey the law. The point is pirating has been happening for years and is not about to stop. The drug addict example is stupid. Try speeding and fines as an example - never going to stop it do you have to try alternatives to change behaviour.

            Again, you seem confused. It's not a crime, it's an infringement.

            This really boils down to one thing. What sort of value do people place on something that is worthless and can be easily copied?

            You also know that breaking the DRM to play your imported DVD is actually a criminal offense (you can go to jail)? Where pirating is not theft - it is copyright infringement and you can only get sued for loss of income and not go to jail.

            So - it is actually SAFER for me to pirate than to import.

              Under Australian law, any DVD player sold in Australia *must* have a feature that allows you to turn the region locking off (no such law relating to Blu-ray though, as far as I'm aware). That seems a bit contradictory next to what you're saying.

        So MotorMouth, if "Australia is only about 8% of the size of the US market, making it largely irrelevant when it comes to recouping production and distribution costs", then why bother taking our money?

        By your own words, they should be giving it to us for free ...

        When I discovered that Japanese games, made by Japanese companies, cost twice as much in Japan as they do in the U.S., I started questioning the concept of region coding. Want people to play fair with the entertainment industry, start playing fair with the customer.

        If the Australian customer is getting no added value, why are they stuck paying more? I'd hardly consider a consumer that questions that business model as a "sheeple".

        Because the costs of digital distribution are the same no matter which country you distribute to. In most cases the USER pays for the distribution costs. And you still want to justify up to 200% price increase for the same file, just because I live in Australia?

        If you want to write off the entire Australian market, go ahead. Just don't complain if we download instead - you gave up that right.

        Remember we are the 6th largest music market in the world, we just piped Canada. I'd imagine, you could extrapolate this for general media consumption to some extent as well. We may be small but there is a buck to be made here.

        I'd imagine that if you wanted to decrease piracy levels, global maximum pricing and distribution in a timely manner would be near the top of a pirates list. The other thing they'd argue for is global contracts for internet based distribution channels. Netflix, Amazon Prime, Spotify, Google music etc. not being available in Australia due to region specific contracts is frustrating, discriminating and insulting to the average pirate. That comes to what I'd imagine would be the last point on a pirates list, to be treated with a little respect. Prates are willing to pay if the correct opportunity is given for them to

        We don't struggle with the concept but I guess if we are such an insignificant market then what does it matter if we pirate the shows?

        THAT! Distribution costs! We're talking about data, where does distribution come into it? Offer me the damn thing at a reasonable price and take my money!
        You do realise as well that there are billions of people who don't live in the USA or Europe and have money to spend, don't you? Give us a secure site, reasonable prices and you'll be making money off generations of consumers .

    Good previews are key i think, if i can sample the music or play a preview of the game prior to purchase then i am much more likely to buy. This is not the same as using a friends copy as a preview, i want to feel like a company actually cares about their product enough to let me taste it first. This goes for games mostly. As for everything else as people have already said we need to ditch regional releases and regional pricing, i don't mind paying more for a quality product, as long as im not paying based on where i live.

    Funnily enough my expectations have changed, back in the days before torrents I would have been on board with any sort of $10-15 unlimited service that didn't count towards your download limit.

    Then when torrents started popping up I the amount I was willing to pay decreased, because the illegal method became even easier, and now that I am on a nice big private tracker that has shows within an hour of it airing the legitimate version would have to be really good.

    I would suggest the obvious option is give the pilot to people for free, charge for a season or a slightly higher rate for individual episodes (but I can buy a season before it even airs), it has to go up online when it airs for the whole world and for a comparable price worldwide (if they report to shareholders in USD just charge in USD, if they report in AUD charge in AUD, the same price for everyone).

    Anything short of a completely fair pricing system, fast releases, actually owning what I pay for and cheap prices will not get me on board, torrents are so amazingly easy and my opinion of the industry is so low that small steps just won't cut it for me, they need to just man up and do what consumers have asked for all these years for me to pay attention and give them another shot.

    Also kickstarter like projects (i would fund those), especially for shows that they are going to cancel, if they offered shows like Futurama (which is back), Firefly, Deadwood, etc on kickstarter to fund the next series (or partial funding because they can still sell it to networks) then I think many of these shows wouldn't have been cancelled.

    I would actually pay a lot more for shows like this then I would be willing to pay after the fact, probably screwy logic but we are emotional beings and that's why my dislike for the industry means that I won't accept a solution that I would have accepted years ago, it's purely an emotional response, the same thing they try and play on with the anti-piracy ads. :D

      Kickstarter.... So much yes... As you said I would personally pay MORE to fund shows I loved.

        I would pay more to get my favourite shows back too. It isn't about price for me really, it's about convenience.

      I like your thinking. This would be really good.

    Firstly let me begin by saying this is not my real name.

    I think I speak for many when I say that we the people, as the majority, do not care about these megalithic companies. And that they have tried to fine us, penalise us, and piratise us for wanting our movies in a different format and in the currency we select does not bring us closer to having any sort of empathy or care for their growth.

    That big media have set out to join forces with the pharmaceutical industry so that they can copyright and patent the whole f'ing planet is beyond a joke, and they are a wrechid disease of this world. Their media also is filled with often soul corrupting messages if you are not attuned to the brainwashing and know how to filter the mind decaying bs in the form of mass cinema.

    If you are producing an art form, which can be digitally aired around the world, then tough cookies - you can't control that, and I hope you never will. I see it like the analogy of the river, and up stream is some bastard who is dumping some shit into the stream. I may not like the shit he is dumping, and yet I go down and fill up my bucket with water, yet in doing so I get some of his shit in my bucket. Now, I am legally bound to the shit provider up stream, and apparently if I drink that water with the shit in it I am breaking some law, created by the shit deliverer, and his shit backing allies.

    That is actually the real piracy of these times.

    I make music in my spare time, and I have been told that if I happen to be recording a song, and my neighbour plays the radio and that sample makes its way into my song, and then my song makes some money that I am legally bound to pay the song maker on the radio some money. That is criminal. The law only protects one side - what about the side which says I don't want to hear the rubbish on the radio, and that potentially that song is pollution in my mind? Can I get some royalties for having to listen to the mind eating music of Justin Beiber as it is force fed across all the main channels? Can I get some royalties for the pain induced from the shit being poured into the river?

    F big media. There is no innovation except 'force' which will make the people pay. And why should they. True arts payment is the effect of the art actually having an audience. If your art doesn't inspire people to put money in your pocket then stop producing - you're not an artist.

    They put the nails in the coffin once they declared war on us and tried to make the world a patented prison... yet they have thieved their whole way to the bank! This is just cycles coming full circle ladies and gentlemen.

      here here

      "If your art doesn’t inspire people to put money in your pocket then stop producing – you’re not an artist."
      So true. If you are trying to make a career being an artist and you can't. Don't blame the dirty pirates...... Maybe you're just $&@t

        That is absolute BS.
        You're saying that nobody has pirated music from Queen, The Beatles or Led Zeppelin?
        The argument of "If people are stealing rather than paying for it, it's not worth paying for" is ridiculous.

          Nobody said if people are stealing it that it is not worth paying for. There is just no reason to when other vehicles are available. People will only pay what they have to, and in the spotlight we are all moralistic creatures aiming to please Jesus and Buddha and Mohhamad, but behind closed doors really, the devil comes out in us all, and morals slip away. IF you haven't figured it out yet, this is why government aims to make the internet transparent and our actions visible, just like as if we are walking in a mall.

          The reality is that music and movies and games are luxuries, far from necessity, and far from what people are willing to pay for. Radio stations merely provide it seemingly free, but they pay royalties, in exchange to fill your mind with advertisements.

          At the end of the day, we are all thieves, even the poor artist, who managed to find that nice chord algorithm from that forgotten song from the 1930's and write it off as their own creative masterpiece. The concept of creative ownership is for foolish liars who have managed to fall victim to their own illusions that they originated with something, rather than seeing they were merely a singular minuscule part in a very long process.

          The point remains, if your art does not inspire people to be generous to you, well you are either too far removed from your fans, and probably aim to get a larger slice of the pie then you really deserve. At the end of the day, the only people complaining are unsustainably huge artists or companies who want to make billions of dollars and be kings of the world. Good luck with that.

            I would just like to add, I wish my problem was that people were stealing my music on torrents. Wow, what a problem that would be. That would mean that hundreds of thousands of people probably know who I am and I could probably rock up to cities and have fans offering me their money in exchange for my time playing my chosen art form for them.

            Time for the big players to get over themselves... Diddums... you only are getting $20,000,000 per album instead of the $100,000,000 you'd like... aww it must be tough. Oh the movie only made $500,000,000 million in its opening weekend instead of the expected $1bil? Aww life is tough... how are the actors going to manage with only getting $50mil for the part. Its going to take at least a year to buy an island and jet at this rate!!! "PAY US PLEBS OR ELSE WE'LL PATENT EARTH!" Basically.

          We didn't say people don't pirate good music. In fact I would suggest quite the opposite, why would people pirate bad music or music they don't like and then continue to listen to it? (they may try it and decide its crap but that's hardly a denied sale)
          I said if you can't make enough money then you are probably crap. The problem isn't that 200 kids pirated your album, the problem is that 200,000 didn't want to. Even if every piece of music was given away for free. Good musicians would still inspire people to put money in their pockets through concerts and merchandise and limited edition CDs etc etc.

    We need Netflix same as America! For the full Foxtel package you can be looking at hundred or so a month. But $8 a month and you choose what you want to watch, well why don't we have it? I feel like we are being screwed over for being Australian.

    I do buy most of the stuff I pirate when it eventually comes out here in Australia and drops to a reasonable price. The trouble is it can take a year or more before its even available here let alone at a reasonable price. I

    Regional restrictions and regional pricing abolished.
    A service that will either incorporate with my xbmc setup or is as flexible as my existing setup.

    I don't pirate games because I can import them or buy them digitally at a fair price generally. If I had to buy from inside Australia I'd pirate them because we aren't even close to competitive.

      This is just me summed up. I buy all my games, and I only ever buy them on ebay from PAL based countries in Europe (mostly the UK). It can be about $40 for a game with express 3-4 day delivery or $100 in JB Hi-Fi for the EXACT SAME GAME.

      I buy things when I believe I get a fair deal. I mostly only pirate music and TV shows, and only shows that I can't buy online at the time of US release.

      Although, and this is just me, I have never felt bad for pirating music. When I DL Games and Movies I think to myself "Do I really have to pirate this, or is there a copy for a reasonable price?". In the last 10 years I have bought 3 albums, all of which I thought every song was good on it, not just two or three like most crappy albums. And iTunes for $2.19 a song? get f***ed Apple!

    Everything I have read above is simple justification. I guarantee nothing anyone does will make anyone voluntarily stop stealing. The only deterrent is to catch, prosecute and imprison them, which is precisely what they deserve.

    The kinds of innovation the RIAA is probably talking about are things that are already a blight upon our viewing choices. Reality shows work because they are produced locally and the best way to see them first is to watch them on TV. Shows like Idol and X Factor also work great for record companies, as they are effectively having their A&R work done for them by the TV networks, guaranteeing them excellent sources of income, year after year. The fact that it has led to an increasingly homogenised music industry doesn't seem to bother too many sheeple. No-one seems to care that all the small, independent labels that used to nurture new talent and foster diversity are gone and all that's left are the big record companies, who will always find a way to make money. That's the irony - the vast global corporations you think you are thumbing your nose to just use your actions as a means of consolidating their dominance, while those you are really hurting (killing, in fact) are the kinds of businesses you would probably like to support.

      Did you seriously just use the term sheeple? We need a new version of Godwin's law for this level of douchbaggery.

        Only sheeple use the word "sheeple".

          Sure, you're all individuals and you 're all so very special. If your protestations weren't so lame, they could almost be funny.

            You want to know why you're meeting such resistance? Because in the same breath you're telling people not to pirate and that we should bend over and put up with services that are by all regards worse in value than piracy.

        Why would an up and coming artist use an independent record label to begin with? Do everything you can yourself and outsource the rest. You can self-publish yourself in so many ways nowadays labels are becoming totally irrelevant.
        This applies to at least the music and book industry, if not all industries.

      "No-one seems to care that all the small, independent labels that used to nurture new talent and foster diversity are gone and all that’s left are the big record companies"

      You should really go out and try to find more music. I think you are borderlining on delusional here.

      "The only deterrent is to catch, prosecute and imprison them, which is precisely what they deserve."

      So you think every music pirate deserves to go to jail with the myriad of severe social fuck ups? Definitely delusional.

      MotorMouth: Nothing I have read above from you is justification for your cause in any way, shape or form. You obviously lack the imagination and negotiation skills to see from a different perspective, or to persuade anyone to change their behaviour. The only deterrent is to ignore you, which is precisely what you deserve (after this rant).

      I agree that "the kinds of innovation the RIAA is probably talking about are things that are already a blight upon our viewing choices". But to blame the "increasingly homogenised music industry" on unsanctioned downloading shows a complete misunderstanding of the situation.

      It is the media that appeals to the masses that is more likely to be downloaded - hurting the big companies. The small, independent labels that use their imagination and ingenuity to develop and market using new paradigms will always find a way to make money.

      That’s the irony – the 'pirates' you think you are thumbing your nose at could well end up being the saviours of the kinds of businesses you would probably like to support.

      "No-one seems to care that all the small, independent labels that used to nurture new talent and foster diversity are gone and all that’s left are the big record companies, who will always find a way to make money."

      The problem with your solution is that the indies have nowhere near the legal resources that the major companies have. Indies rely more on a strong DIY philosophy, and with that comes innovation. I predict that the big companies will eventually collapse, trying to enforce an obsolete way of doing business as technology continues to sidestep those barriers (until they stop clinging to that model). Indie bands will figure out a way to make new technology work for them.

      The question isn't how to discourage people from wanting to "get it for free", it's how to start looking at music or video as something that can be distributed all over the globe as data and figure out a business model that doesn't pretend that it's limited to a physical medium that requires packaging and regional licensing. The music and video industry are still trying to prop up companies that depend on music being attached to a CD and a movie being attached to a DVD, but the fact remains that the brick and mortar music and video stores are failing, and other companies that embrace the new technology are taking their place.

      MotorMouth comments +10 to idiocy
      i'm sorry but all your comments so far have been senseless, 1st you try to defend the problem and now your just saying lock everyone and i mean everyone up. You are part of the problem, Australia still this problem, you are willing to buy at exuberant prices
      i personally will keep pirating until business gets their shit together and are actually competitive
      especially as our dollar has recently been on the higher side

      Speaking purely about video games, which is the only form of multimedia I consume in any appreciable quantity, the requirements are as follows:

      1. Treat me with respect.

      That's it. Here are some common business practices that flaunt a distributor's lack of respect for me.

      a. Too much DRM, and DRM that is so restrictive that it actually hinders the proper function of the product in a worst case scenario (see Uplay, Games For Windows Live).
      b. Different release dates for different parts of the world.
      c. Different prices for different parts of the world. Paying 200% just because I live in Australia is stupidity.
      d. Unavailability of certain titles between countries.

      I actually don't pirate games, and haven't since I got a job a couple of years ago (and even back then it was only abandonware), but I openly import games or exploit VPNs to obtain them earlier and at cheaper prices.

      I also want to address one of Motormouth's points from his first post, "The fact that it has led to an increasingly homogenised music industry doesn’t seem to bother too many sheeple. No-one seems to care that all the small, independent labels that used to nurture new talent and foster diversity are gone and all that’s left are the big record companies, who will always find a way to make money."

      Motormouth should go have a look at what's happening in PC gaming. There's a huge resurgence in independent titles, and part of their strength lies in completely rejecting all of the behaviours I listed above. They're also finding new ways of funding their work, with pre-alpha sales and Kickstarter providing a new avenue of gamer-to-developer funding with no middleman.

        Minecraft basically proves your point on its own.

    If we had more online services available in Australia to stream movies and tv shows as they are released in the U.S. and were not counted towards isp data usage I think it would assuage many would-be pirates in Australia that are being let down by regional pricing, shoddy television networks and delayed releases.

    For music? DRM-free FLAC files at a reasonable price -- say, five to ten dollars an album. In fact, I already do pay for this whenever an artist I like offers it (which is becoming increasingly common).

    For TV? Let me watch it the day it airs in the U.S. (or whatever the country of origin is). Otherwise, I'll torrent it. I'll usually end up buying the DVD or blu-ray eventually anyway, so they're still getting paid.

    Movies and games I don't really pirate all that often... movies I prefer to see in the cinema, and games I couldn't be bothered.

      Why not just buy the CD and get all the extra stuff that comes with it? I don't know about other artists but my band makes a lot more money from CD sales than digital. Of course, when I say "a lot more", it is still relative. We make about $30 a quarter from digital (we are on all the big distribution sites, including iTunes and amazon,com), and a hundred-and-something from CD sales.

      What's more interesting is that no matter how much promotion out label does - for our last album we did dozens of on-line interviews and I recorded about 160 radio promos in half-a-dozen different languages - it has almost no effect on digital sales but works well for selling CDs. i..e Digital sales continue at a very steady rate, where CD sales spike when we have a new release. It also usually only takes about a week for illegal downloads of a new release to appear on Google searches.

        Because I don't care about the extra stuff, I just want the music -- plus, digital makes it easier to buy directly from the artist, which I always do whenever possible.

        Just out of curiosity, what is your band?

          I'm pretty sure they call themselves "Sheeple".

            +1 for being the first comment to make me lol IRL

        If your a small band with a decent following your a fool to be signed with anyone and or anything. My cut of my bands sales is usually a few grand every month. We pay for our own recordings, do the art ourselves, design our merch ourselves or have fans submit work, we book our own shows, and we pay for pressing of cd's and vinyl.

        We all work full time too, only shite bands who need to be hyped sign anything as doing it yourself is incredibly easy, has better results and you keep your integrity to boot.

        I couldn't care less if someone rips off an ep or album (there is currently 40 leechers on one of my album torrents as of right now) , it means more people show up to live shows, which is what music is all about, yet most to seem to have forgotten that.

          What is your band? Sounds like a likeable bunch.

        you're obviously not in a very good band.

        So you do 160 radio promos, a dozen interviews in multiple languages and are on all the big global distribution outlets.
        And you only manage $600 a year in sales.....!!!!!

        Yea piracy is the problem here, lol.

          lol, good buskers can make more than his band makes in a year...and how many people get to enjoy buskers music completely free ; D

            To be fair, AWFUL buskers can make more in a day than his band in a year...... =p

    Thanks to spotify/rdio services, music pray is declining. For movies, stop charging $20 a movie ticket and trying to make me watch everything in 3D. Actors do NOT need multi million dollar pay days for a few weeks work so box office prices sure as shit don't have to be so high to pay for them. Subscription for tv shoes would be fantastic. $1.20 per episode and current season pass prices are too high.

    None of these comments are innovation, just different prices and cost structures.

    The only way to truly defeat piracy is by making things free and available globally. Even if media cost $0.05 people will still prefer to get it free if they can.

    So the innovation must be in how you make money from free media. Currently tv shows are free to air and they make money from ads. The real question here is how can free media make money?

    @MotorMouth- piracy will not decrease, you are right. But they WILL get a lot more customers! I purchase series, music and games all the time, but often when I cannot stream them from their source to check them out I download them and if I want to see more of that kind of thing (Dexter, Boardwalk Empire, Sherlock.etc) I put my money where my mouth is and buy it! I would be able to do this so much easier if things were competitively priced here in Australia. $30 for a cd?! a CD?!? I can't see how they'd expect somebody to sink that much money into a cd without hearing it properly first.

    Localised reality shows, yeah I don't think people outside the countries would give two craps when it came out elsewhere. But in general though I agree with Paroxysm concerning regional availability and regional pricing as they're just hurting themselves by making things harder for potential consumers.

    I think your argument of people thumbing their noses at the big corporations is a little weak. Anybody who is concerned enough to actively boycott a larger label is probably going to be motivated to know whether or not they are actually pirating that labels products.

    About independant music labels, I'm not sure where your head is at but there many independant labels around kicking strongly because unlike their competitors they can read the writing on the wall, these are the guys who are willing to put their content on subscription networks and are at the forefront of effective legit online distribution and sale of their product.

    I think Jonathon Coulton said it best though "Any other artists out there notice ever since Megaupload closed, the money's just being pouring in!?" (sarcasm, obviously) and "make good stuff and make it easy for people to buy it - that's your anti piracy plan"

    The objective here is not to stop piracy as that'a never going to happen and lets be honest, it's been going around since cassettes and poster prints. But it's a mistake to look at piracy simply as lost sales. Many people use piracy because they can't access the content any other way. That's not to say anybody has a 'right' to a product, BUT - it's a consumer demand that these companies so far have been looking to punish instead of try and sell to. People want it quickly, so provide it quickly! Internationally!
    How hard can it possibly be to have the television broadcast and the online stream launch within hours of each other? and have alternative non-intrusive ad solutions that won't drive people to just torrenting it resulting in losing ALL advertisement revenue because people would prefer not to have their show interrupted by shorts of some bullcrap other show from an entirely different genre along with a few clips of whatever Taco Bell is selling.

    So you won't stop piracy, but what you CAN do is offer a better product and a better service offering the convenience and speed that people are able to get with piracy and you'll see a lot more people buying your product.

    Take the games development company Valve as an excellent case in point. They've now established the de-facto games digital distribution service. The main mistake their competitors are making though, are seeking to copy their platform without taking the philosophy of the service provided on board. The laisse-faire non-concern for piracy and instead looking at where the pirate markets are, and trying to develop for THAT audience. You won't stop people downloading illegally, however, realise that just because they've got it for free, doesn't mean they won't be a customer if you give value to the product. Provide a service that people want.Team Fortress 2 is a prime example of how an online game should be supported post-release. Highly priced DLC - here's a tip. If it's not a substantial expansion to the game like a mini-sequel of sorts - people are likely going to be unwilling to sink $15-$20 into what - a campaign mission? a couple of multiplayer maps? a couple of hours worth of scripted events!?

    If you charge something in the order of $2-$5. the content you're offering now largely is deserving of microtransactions at the most which is another reason why Steam is so successful. Sale volume will get you more money than the high DLC prices will. If you really want to draw more 'lost sales' back from piracy, assess what people are willing to pay and consider reasonable. If you charge significantly more than people are willing to pay then they will have no compunction about not buying it legitimately at all even if you do bring the price down later on. Because you weren't there with a serious offer from square one.

    So I guess what my post is about is - you can't get rid of piracy. But the way to stop it being a problem for your sales is to pay attention to what it is doing better than you. If you can make it so that not paying anything is the ONLY advantage someone torrenting it has over buying the legitimate product, then your sales will be about as high as they could possibly be with the product you are offering and if it doesn't sell, piracy isn't the factor responsible. As people are clearly willing to spend money and they do spend money, the industry revenues are still higher than ever!. So it's a red herring to blame piracy when your product doesn't sell.

      $30 for a CD when I can listen AND watch, for FREE, on youtube.

      When I was living in the UK I was paying about 6 pounds (about $AUS10) for a download of a CD from Amazon. That is about the maximum I am willing to pay when there are so many places where I can listen to the music legally for free. Here in Aus I cannot find anything newish for less than about $25 - more than double what I was paying in the UK. I don't mind paying. But I won't pay to get ripped off.

    I'm glad that these options are being considered, instead of the previous tactic of suing everyone. Ease of access, price and speed of release are definitely factors. It won't stop everyone pirating, but most people will take the easy, cheap and legal option if available.

    This is slightly off topic, but MotorMouth will you just Shut Up already!

      Truth a little unsettling for the sheeple, is it?

        Hahaha, not at all. It's just that the word "sheeple" to most people is a big, red flag that screams "I haven't put any thought into this argument at all, please ignore me", which is probably not the impression you want to be giving.

        Your comments make me want to pirate even more, because I realise that the people that want me to stop are like you. I wanna get as far away from that as possible!

        What, the truth that you're just a sob story low paid artist who has swallowed the BS from your label that the interwebs is evil? Get a grip. Tell us your band name so we can NOT pirate your lame music.

        Honestly douche, how many times can you say "sheeple " in one thread & not look like a complete muppet? If that's any indication of your originality & creativity then it's no surprise that your alleged music career is a failure.

      Have to agree with HMac7, the discussion was supposed to be what it would take for people to stop pirating, not a debate on whether pirating is justified or not. MotorMouth, your comments are legitimate but they're really NOT relevant here.

      OMG x 1000

      motormouth your arguments are ridiculous, the reasons here are all valid, having to wait too long, price gouging, things arent accessible here in australia andfrankly, no ads! any online streaming service that offered on demand, access to shows and movies with a fee would go along way to reduce piracy.

      oh and again...SHUT UP

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