I regret ever installing iTunes 8. I already went through the hassle of going back to 7.

rmiller07

ssssh!

[www.floola.com]

neal whitehouse piper

hmmm...this is something i've been looking for, and the reason I went to foobar2000 in the first place.

Norcross

I have been increasingly turned off by iTunes. The bloat effect is only part of it. I actually switched to Songbird to manage my iPod. The Songbird project has really improved its iPod support lately.

forpeterssake

If anyone from Apple is reading this, you're screwing the pooch here. Why are you determined to ruin the good thing you have going? You're more Microsoft-esque every release.

PhilHut

@Spooon69: Songbird

nka

I never use iTunes yet I have it installed, why? How else am I going to update the firmware on my iPod? And copy music over (reliably, I don't want to play the game of Apple blocking third-party software and such).

Plus Apple *forces* you to upgrade to the newest iTunes if you have a newer iPod and want to update your firmware.

Any workarounds for keeping iTunes off my PC and still getting what I want?

Spooon69

Oof. Thanks for the warning. I won't be upgrading!

teeveedoctor

@forpeterssake:

Crap...Songbird doesn't yet support iPhone or Touch. What a shame. Realized that after I installed it. Uninstall.

netman2670

...but iTunes is the No. 1 music retailer. You think they hear or care about any other complaints?

iTunes is the new GM of music retailers. Now all we have to do is sit back and watch...

Webran61

How can I reduce the iTunes CPU and memory usage? Do I need iTunes helper? I have disabled Apple Mobile Device support and Bonjour, but not all the itunes processes are listed in services.msc

Any ideas?

nka

Sounds good, but still doesn't solve the real problem (i face). I intentionally only installed iTunes on an old laptop to keep all the bloat off of my two good computers. The only reason I even need it is for a)firmware updates to iPod Touch b) sync music with my iPod Touch.

I can live without the firmware updates, it's jail broken anyways, but, is there a reliable way to sync music with a Touch/iPhone without iTunes? - That's all I really want.

wolfkabal

For those of us who already installed iTunes 8, you can go through the Add/Remove control panel app, and rid yourself of Bonjour, Apple Software update (iTunes already checks itself for updates, and with new revs of iTunes it is nearly always safe to wait a while before updating), Mobile Device Support, and anything else extra that Apple threw in. For basic iPod use, you only need iTunes and Quicktime. The extra, pointless Apple apps do seem to uninstall themselves cleanly, at least Revo Uninstaller seems to think so. You should already be running a HIPS service such as WinPatrol that detects and arrests apps and services that set themselves to autorun and take over defaults without your permission. It should catch iTunes helper and the horrible Quicktime self-start app before it changes all your prefs.

doctorfrog

The executable is now named: iTunes801Setup.exe

Any admins know how to remotely patch itunes on a corp network easily?

mjm01010101

Trimming the install size isn't my major concern. What DOES chap my cheeks is the abysmal performance. Has anyone had the time to use this article, and have you noticed an appreciable boost (read: do you not feel like killing yourself when you open the app?)

nolabar10der

back when i didn't know better and i used still used iTunes, i remember one day noticing that the bulk of the installation is language files. so i deleted all non-english files. then iTunes wouldn't run. it insisted on having all language files present, even if it wasn't using them.

by strange coincidence, that's the same day i started using foobar...

garbanzo-bean

Can't forget Safari sneaking on and increasing the bloat.

iTunes on Windows is pure trash. There's about a thousand useless background services, that reenable themselves if you try and disable them. The interface is clunky. They can't even write a USB device driver without sucking.

johnsmith1234

"For the sake of comparison, Windows Media Player 11 for Windows XP is just over 24 MB."

For further comparison: Winamp is 10.8MB, Winamp Lite is 4.9MB, and Foobar 2000 is 2.7MB.

Rob P.

@whoisvaibhav:
I'd probably read that, but I positively hate gray text on a white background.

doctorfrog

@Kaelri: I have no issues either...I think it depends on what you're trying to do, though. I'm not really trying to do anything all that intensive with it, so it works for me.

Magnakai Haaskivi

@Kaelri: No, you are not the only one. I have no problems with iTunes, either. Takes about 30 sec to load up, but after that it runs just fine and sits quietly in the tray. Streaming to my AppleTV is great, too. I'm on a Dell Latitude X300 1.4GHz, 1.5Gb RAM and 250Gb HD.

Though I will give it to the article, seeing the MobileMe stuff installed is rather annoying. I may reinstall using the above method just to have rid of that.

mjgolli

This is exactly the reason why I hate iTunes: I positively hate iTunes

whoisvaibhav

@Webran61: Didn't Toyota surpass GM? ;)

wolfkabal

@Spooon69: Checkout Media Monkey. It's got all of the same functionality as iTunes (minus the "genius" list) and works with iPods. It's not as clean an interface, but it's doable.

Tony Bullard

I must be the only Windows user on Earth who still really likes iTunes, and not just in comparison to its competitors. I like it. It works. It sits in the tray, it never bothers me, it organizes my music exactly how I want it to. I'll definitely be using this to free up some hard drive space, but if anything, iTunes 8 seems noticeably more responsive than 7, not less.

Just for perspective, I'm on a two-year-old laptop, with 1.7GHz, 1GB of RAM, and 60GB drive, and iTunes never, ever gives me problems. Not even lag. I can run it while gaming, for heaven's sake.

I won't deny that Apple's marketing makes me *headdesk* on a regular basis (I'm sorry, Steve, but I've got two browsers now and they're both better than Safari). But for me, nothing works better than iTunes.

Kaelri

@Kaelri: I use iTunes for 3 different iPod Shuffles (one for me, one for my daughter, and one for my son) and do not have any major issues with it.

Putting music on the 3 Shuffles is all I really use it for, although I do really enjoy viewing the album art. I just wish I could take the Album art and the music list (not the actual mp3 files) and save it to an HTML file. I've only been able to find software that does that for the Slimserver, which I do not use.

Rose Tyler

I've tried several alternatives to iTunes and always come back to it. Yes it is bloated but seems to do a better job of finding/organizing podcasts. I like amarok on linux and will give that a shot once it is more stable for windows.

cmotdibbler

I have had my quirks with iTunes, but I don't really hate it. I mostly hate the DRM attached to songs I buy from iTunes. I use music in my videos alot, having the DRM makes it a chore to just insert audio files or edit them for ringtones and whatnot. Which is why I do my best to shop exclusively at Amazon's Music Store.

But I can certainly agree with everyone's complaints regarding it. It does run kinda slow. My biggest complaint right now is that iTunes and my iPod take forever to sync before I can disconnect it. FOREVER.

jquack

I left Itunes for crap like this.

MediaMonkey FTW

Meetloaf13

of course it comes with extra software, its how apple trys to sneak extra bullshit onto your pc without you noticing.

update your version of quicktime, and download safari anyone?

skilled1

"For the sake of comparison..."

These comparisons are like over-the-air television vs. HD digital cable or Satellite. Yes, you can watch some of your favorite programs on broadcast TV. But you don't get high quality video (I know, digital is almost here, but you have to re-aim the antenna if the signals aren't lined up) and audio. You can't schedule the DVR/TiVo, you don't get On demand, and you sure don't get a bazillion channels.

If you want a simple pile of MP3 tracks, these others will do a great job. If you want a real database manager, with lots of different features that allow you to mix, match, and manage your music AND video AND mobile apps, it's the only choice. Sure Windows Media Player is smaller, but it's also tricycle compared to iTunes AMG Hammer.

Left out of the whole trimming the install hoo-hah is that simply porting it to Windows automatically demands bloat. With all the crappy dlls and drivers, you have to throw in the kitchen sink for contingencies. The piss-poor job Microsoft does managing dlls begs for a class action. You install a new/updated program, Windows tells you it's a trusted partner, and when you're done 3 other programs don't work. You call tech support (the crashing programs, not the crappy new app or - God forbid - MS) and they tell you that these guys have screwed with the dll -same version, release, and 3rd decimal plus any characters - which caused the crash. They have you reinstall the old dll and everything is fine. Including the new application. "Trusted" indeed.

If you have doubts, explain why the Mac version takes up about 65% the space of Windows.

imajoebob

... or use foobar2000 with plugins. iTunes is close to the epitome of bloatware rivalled only by the likes of Vista.

antineutrino

This article inspired me to remove iTunes from my laptop because I don't really need it. Unfortunately, this also disabled the DVD drive with "Windows cannot load the device driver for this hardware. The driver may be corrupted or missing. (Code 39)". I found this was because iTunes had installed GEARAspiWDM but failed to remove it from HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Class\{4D36E965-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}\UpperFilters. Removing this fixed the problem.

I hate Apple for this. When someone tries to trick you into installing something which won't uninstall cleanly, that's usually called malware.

dreamlayers

@dreamlayers: That's usually called "Windows compatible."

imajoebob

@imajoebob: Oh, come on. Windows bashing is fashionable but Windows works. It has been many years since I've seen an uninstaller break something.

dreamlayers

@undefined: I prefer Amazon's music service for purchasing mp3's, but I use the Itunes interface to find songs I want.

On Amazon, songs are DRM free and only 99 cents, some are only 89 cents.

ryn05

@Norcross:
Yup, F2k + ipod plugin is where it's at.

No more itunes crap, giving a 100mb update every couple week.

[yuo.be]

Ph0Xy

I think iTunes adds all the bloat because they don't trust Microsoft. They could perhaps rely on the API a lot more, but then they'd be in a weak position that MS would just love to exploit...

BoxOfSnoo

Don't get me wrong, I *love* the feature set of iTunes, it's just that Apple seems determined to ruin it with inflexible feature inclusion. I should be able to turn all the junk off that I don't want/need and be rewarded with a smaller memory footprint.

PhilHut

So on iPhone they demand no background services, but if its on a windows computer, they say: "hey, lets find even more ways to make the crap known as PC look even crappier by adding bloatware!"

fullyrandomtandem

they should ask you if you would like to install the additional software during installation, it would get much better results.

fullyrandomtandem

Actually, although iTunes sucks, as the whole world is well aware, version 8 is by far the strongest player they've put together. It's far snappier than v7. It would be great to have a tutorial on how to remove stuff once you've installed the whole thing, since I'm sure many who have it installed don't want to go to the trouble of doing a clean install. When you look at junk programs like iTunes it really makes a pc user wonder how anyone that wasn't terribly deluded could be such a zealot for apple products--and zealot fanboyz there certainly are. I know you're going to say "iTunes for the Mac is better". Bung dung. It's just as big a piece of junk on the mac. I've used them both.

philosopher_dog

Simmer down, son. Those are the same services that run on Macintoshes. The Windows iTunes setup download is larger because they're bundling software packages that Macs install separately.

QuickTime and Mobile Device Support are separate software bundles on Macs. Bonjour, MobileMe support and the Software Updater are part of the operating system.

Apple's stance on limiting background services on the iPhone and iPod touch is largely due to the severe limitations concerning CPU cycles, memory, and battery life.

It has nothing to do with being anti-Windows, so don't turn it into a Mac-vs-Windows flame war. Because it's not.

Deprong Mori

@dreamlayers: No. It doesn't work, and never will with the horror show of dlls. "Only" crashing once in a while, instead of every few days may be an improvement, but it's not the same as once in 2 1/2 years. And as I said before, why bash Apple about "bloat" when the OS X version is 2/3 the size? Seems to me the problem isn't so much the program as the (still unreliable) platform.

imajoebob

@Rob P.: I think the WMP comparison is the most applicable because most people consider WMP11 to be bloatware, and iTunes is over twice as large, with more running services. I don't think I've ever seen anyone complain about the size/resposiveness of WinAmp.

Baladen

@Spooon69: Get a Zune [www.zune.net] (and use Zune software instead).

Baladen

Amarok for Windows is something like Internet Explorer for Mac :).

Dagenham

I don't like iTunes for two main reasons: it won't monitor folders to automagically update the library, and it won't sync to other devices than iPods (my car has a USB socket for playing MP3s).

However, I do quite like the interface, and the smart playlists. Presumably iTunes is required to update iPod firmware too?

So is there a media player/library that will monitor a folder, sync multiple devices (using playlists), and also has smart playlists? Can anyone suggest anything?

bbawden

@nka:
If you don't have iTunesHelper running, your iPod is detected as a regular USB storage device by Windows and you'll see the AutoPlay window appear when you plug in the iPod. (I tried disabling iTunesHelper to see what would happen). If iTunes is not already running it won't start automatically - this is one of the functions of iTunesHelper. If iTunes is already running when you plug in your iPod, it will see the iPod ok despite the AutoPlay window having appeared.

PipsoFacto

@wolfkabal: I use winamp with one of two available iPod plugins. I prefer the "after market" plugin (ml_ipod) because it has a more reliable cover art upload and true "synch" support. I have yet to find a feature that is not supported by winamp for the ipod using this plugin (other than firmware install).

I own 3 Ipods (a 2G, 4G and a Nano 4G), I have never updated the firmware on any of them and the last time I installed iTunes it was in version 6.

squarepants

I'm still rocking Winamp because it's significantly less clunky, and on a light install, only takes up 20 mb of my hard disk, leaving room for the 80 gigs of music I listen to.

Kirk Douglas

@undefined:
And Atari's Pong is 12k...whats your point

jeffjenn

.

da5id_nz

Sorry, I meant to say transfers so *slowly* from my computer to Touch and iPhone...

da5id_nz

I don't know why, but music transfers from my computer to my Touch and my iPhone. I went back and installed some other music on my iPod 5G the other day and the transfer is so fast! Why is it slow on the newer devices?

da5id_nz

@squarepants: But does this work with the Touch/iPhone ( encrypted database )?

wolfkabal

I actually uninstalled some of the applications after installing the whole package... but now that 8.0.1's come out, it says it can't uninstall some of them and aborts the entire process. Help? :P

Richaod