I wanted to believe in OO... But OO 2 Base was just so damn infuriating, buggy and incomplete.

I had to work with MS Access, which just makes me feel dirty and cold...

l337_7r4d3r

@11hawkinst: Same here.

@LastAndLeast: Yes.

finalellipsis

Does it support .docx?

LastAndLeast

I stopped using OO on my mac in favor of Bean for Word processing, only because of speed. Unless the launch times improve, I won't return to OO. One has to wonder, has there even been a high-performance app written in Java? My experience has been that Java = sloooowwwww...

dougwo

Hmm... Open Office is looking pretty good, if you still use Office 2003. I'm sorry to say, even though it's not free and open source, Microsoft Office 2007 has the best interface I've ever used for any word processor, spreadsheet software, and presentation program. Until they get rid of the whole taskbar/menu thing, I'm not going to switch from Office '07.

Still, a good alternative if you can't afford Office.

11hawkinst

@dougwo: While Openoffice.org supports Java extensions, JDBS database drivers, and Java scripting, the application is primarily written in C++. Startup times can be reduced by completely disabling Java in Openoffice:
[the11throck.wordpress.com]

davidron

Been using Oo for the past couple of years and have never looked back. Looking forward to 3.0!

spidermedic

@ThirteenthTribe: If that's the only person you've heard praise the Office 2007 interface, you need to talk to more people. People that criticize the Office Ribbon are usually (a) People that gave up in 5 minutes because it's "different" or (b) Microsoft haters that can't be satisfied by any MS (M$?) product, regardless of how great it may be.

Colage

i'm sorry but office 2007 is the bomb. maybe when i get my new home machine i'll try OO but until then i'm sticking with Office 2007

B1663R

I switched to OO.o the moment I heard about it several years ago and have never looked back, except at certain jobs where Office 2007 was perpetrated upon me.

I think @11hawkinst is the only person I've ever heard praise the UI in Office 2007. With all due respect, I see no advantage of one over the other, except that I am familiar with where things are in the OO.o menus.

ThirteenthTribe

OO Writer is annoying to use when you're already used to MS Word. perhaps relearning is worth the cost, but not for me at the moment.. if they modeled the menus and default functions like Word, i would use it. this coming from someone who is tech savvy, imagine everyone else!

xlax

@ThirteenthTribe: well it looks like, from the comments, that I'm not the only person who likes the new interface. Aside from some comments about how people are frustrated by how different it is, I've heard mostly praise. Once you get used to the UI, it's really quite easy and SO much better than digging through the menus to find a certain option.

11hawkinst

"For Microsoft Office files you currently have on hand, OpenOffice.org will import and read them, but it cannot save them back into Microsoft Office format if you make changes."

Maybe I'm not understanding the above correctly, but isn't that a show-stopper?

If I have a .doc file that I open in OO, I need to be able to save any changes in .doc so that I can open the file on computers that aren't running OO.

And if I'm completely misunderstanding this, someone please correct me.

drdoombot

@finalellipsis: I didn't see anything in the release notes referring to .docx. Did I miss something? Can you point me to some documentation or have you tried it yourself?

ri59

I too love MS Office 2007. I often felt like Office upgrades were total rip offs, where users paid money and Microsoft delivered much the same product. Not so with 2007. This was the first version in a long time that I felt really delivered huge improvements in lots of areas.

jayp01

@Dan Cardin: You get used to it. It does take getting used to because it IS different. However, once you've gotten the hang of it, it's a much easier paradigm to deal with--at least it was for me.

dekay46

I also love the Office 2007 UI. The ribbon is strange the first few times you use, but then you realize how great it works.

scokar

@11hawkinst: i hate not having a Main Menu

Dan Cardin

Still no OpenOffice OneNote. :(

EvanManrow

Like many others, I wanted to love OO but I just couldn't. Sure, the basic functionality is there, but MS Office has always felt more powerful, especially in terms of form-formatting and macros. Also, the UI in Office '07 is just so much better. I am digging the OO3 interface though.

Open Office is a great free alternative, but nothing beats the Microsoft Suite.

jeebussez

i'm not sure what the reviewer is on about...the "Save As..." dialog has all the usual suspects, including "Microsoft Word 97/2000/XP (.doc)", "Rich Text Format (.rtf)" and "Microsoft 2003 XML (.xml)"

patrick h. lauke

@drdoombot: Yeah I'm not sure I'm getting that either. OO2 allows it, so why not now? If that's the case, I won't be upgrading. I need to be able to save as .doc. I'll stick with the old stuff until they fix that.

magnoliasouth

This is looking nicer than the 2.x series. ^__^

I have been using the Oxygen Office Pro version of the 2.x series for a bit now because it came with a lot of extra graphics and templates...

What I am really holding out for though is the Go Open Office version of Open Office 3.0. Go Open Office is supposed to support typing Chinese (and I imagine Japanese along with Korean) much better and for me that is a definite plus for it. ^__^

Go Open Office is also supposed to have a better looking interface than the Open Office 2.x series...

For anyone interested in website for Go Open Office (current stable version is 2.4.1-5) and screenshots, here are the direct links:

Go Open Office Homepage

Go Open Office Screenshots

Asian Angel

@11hawkinst: 100% agree with that first comment of yours.

JuryDuty

Avoid common mistakes when making Microsoft Office (or any other office suite for that matter) so that they translate better:

1. Write your entire document without any formatting: Yeah, you heard me, this way you avoid the usual overtagging that occurs inside the document. Once you have finished avoid using the buttons bold, italics, etc, or setting the size by hand... Use styles!!!

2. Layout your images consistently, first insert them then when you have finished apply the proper layouting to them.

3. Not sure they have the same software as you? PDF is a choice! Your presentation? There's a way to translate it to images or even a SWF (Flash) presentation.

4. Don't get fancy with fonts, you having it installed doesn't mean that everybody does.

As usual remember that it's your content what's important, not the design. A cool design with nothing to say will not do any good.

This steps will help any office suite to achieve better results at translation... Why? It's like when you learn a new language, in school they teach you proper grammar, etc... In real life, people often do not use it (I might be a good example of this, English is not my first language which is why this post might have grammar fails!).

Go OOo! Go!

whiskey

Here's one of the extensions I most loved. Oo.o to Google Documents. And Zoho btw :)

[extensions.services.openoffice.org]

ez10

@drdoombot: I'm pretty sure it means the new .docx format. It's always had the capability to use the .doc, so there's no reason they would take it away now.

It's at least nice that it will be able to read the .docx, even if it can't save to it. The current OOo is not very good at it in my experience.

wakeboarderal05

@whiskey: Nice post. I'll keep these tips in mind.

I started using OO.o a few months back and I love it. i know it's different and some new things to learn, but hey i like learning new things. The first thing that sold me was when I ctrl+c in PDF and it keeps the formatting in Writer.

I haven't used Office07 yet, but I do think anything Windows is worth a try.

One thing that puts OO.o over MS for me is the fact that it's open source. There's more and more apps being developed open source and I look forward to the extensions.

Openurminds

ez10

The ribbon was one of of the year's best UIs, according to UI interface geniuses with ugly websites everywhere.

Johnny Pneumatic

And OneNote too ;)

(Being in school still, I want that REALLY bad)

Labot2001

I'm agreeing with a few others here; until I see a UI like Office 2007 on Open Office, I'm sticking with MS on this one.

Labot2001

@magnoliasouth: Yeah, uh, can someone confirm that I will no longer be able to save to .doc? Because then I won't be upgrading... Too bad because I use only OO and I was looking forward to an upgrade from them

ub

Will switch as soon as there is a Portable Apps version...

Kspraydad

For routine work, this is probably just the ticket. If you expect to be moving back and forth to an MS Office environment or have an application dependent on Office apps you're probably better off ponying up for M$.

mballai

@EvanManrow:
That's my showstopper. That and outlook.

MS have certainly made Office 2007 smooth and ironed out the little annoyances, as well as making it shiny.
:-D

pobox90210

@drdoombot: I believe that is referring to .docx
It should still be able to open and save as .doc

2-7offsuit

@Labot2001:
OneNote: Useful too when you stop bludging off the state and get a real job

:-)

pobox90210

@drdoombot: I don't know where they're getting their information from, but OpenOffice 3.0 can read and save in both the legacy and newer Office 2007 formats.

zero456

I switched to OpenOffice.org sometime in 2006; since then I had been using the Student Edition of Microsoft Office 2003.

Of Microsoft's products, Office isn't that bad--I switched from Office 2003 to OOo because 1) OOo is free and 2) it would have free updates, as opposed to Office 2003, which worked, but it was already several years defunct. I haven't used Office 2007, but I hear good things about it--however, as long as I have OpenOffice.org, I see now reason to pay for MS Office ever again.

I'm excited to hear about OpenOffice.org 3.0, especially that we'll be able to read .docx format--the fact that Microsoft created a new proprietary format for their newest product annoyed me; colleagues and peers at school used to send me .docx files until I let them know I couldn't open them.

I'll wait until OOo 3.0 is officially released before I download it, but it's good to hear that progress has been made.

Ben Babcock

Wait.. I thought "show stopper" is a good thing. Do you mean "deal breaker"?

And can someone point me to an article or something explaining exactly how and why the "ribbon" is better? I am one of those people that hates it cuz "it's different." I think maybe b/c any time lately I've used it is to dash something off quickly and I have not had time to really sit down with it. Turns me off totally.

And is the OO database any better? I seem to recall it basically would only let you view an MS db, and not do anything new with it? I forget. It's been a while since I abandoned it and went with MS Access..

duckncvr

I've switched my family over to OO when we bought our newest computers, and only my wife and I ever use MSO now (and only at work).

I even switched my 65 year old dad to OO (because he didn't want to shell out for MSO on his new laptop) and he HATES learning to do "computer stuff".

mjschmidt

I uninstalled Microsoft Office a year and a half ago and have exclusively used OpenOffice since then. I'm not without complaints -- the start time is high, but you can tweak it to run better. But in general, I am very satisfied. I like the extensibility, I still like the interface better than MS Office 2007, and I like the built-in PDF features and support for almost any format. Hopefully version 3 will continue to refine an already good product.

forpeterssake

Been using OpenOffice for the past year. Have lost touch with Microsoft Office and really, I do not miss it. OpenOffice gives me what I want - I have yet to need to do something it can't, plus it gives me my documents in a format compatible with Google Documents, which allows me to work on a document whether I'm online or offline. Most of all, it gives me the assurance that my information will remain portable. I was willing to put in the effort to learn its differences from MS Office and I must say, it took much less time than I expected. Plus, it allows me to save as PDFs. That alone was worth it - so many times, I have been able to send a document to somebody without worrying if they have Word installed - the chances were that if they could browse the internet, they could read PDFs. Have yet to be wrong about that :)

carleeto

I've just messed with the OS X version. Well, I'm glad to see we don't need to run this through X11 anymore but I have to admit I was hoping for it to have a more Mac feel than it turned out. The fact that the entire contents of each app was in its own giant window is something that the iWork and Office '08 apps have started to peel away from. Secondly, the overall look of the buttons and general interactive elements felt more like they belonged to Puma or Jaguar than they do with Tiger or Leopard. Maybe that just me, but it just feels less polished than current Mac apps. Lastly, I felt the interface, while typing or just generally navigating was not as snappy as I'm used to. It may just be me, or at least with the typing a preference setting needed to be changed, but over it was weird. Don't get me wrong I'm glad to see this as a native OS X app, and I thing for being free its amazingly feature rich, but I don't know if it has the polish I've since come to expect from a app running on the Mac OS X platform.

That's just my initial thoughts.

rknight

@drdoombot: No kidding.

If they mean what you think they mean, someone took a sledgehammer to one of OpenOffice's most useful features.

If they don't mean what you think they mean, someone needs to go back to press release writing school.

nighttimestereo

Can it read MS Pub docs? I can't seem to find anything that does.

WomanWithManyHats

Is the MacOS version actually stable? Last time I saw Open Office running on a Mac it was an unstable POS, worse than the Windows version.

Did they fix the performance issues? Open office Writer gobbles almost 4 times as much memory as Word 2003, loads 10 times slower and presents a laggy interface.

Trust office 2003 as I have for the past 5 years, the new interface in 2007 is truly more intuitive once you get used to it, the templates look much nicer, and it performs reasonably well even on old computers. However Office 2003 still remains a very good, very useful program, and if it works for you, there's no overwhelming reason to upgrade to office 2007, or switch to Open office.

The big question though, is it in fact truly Office compatible? "Mostly" and "kind of" don't cut it. Like it or not office is what other people use and being able to properly trade documents with suppliers and clients is important.

@duckncvr: The ribbon things are laid out in a more logical manner by task, and there's more graphical representation (human eye can identify the correct graphic much quicker than text, making menu selection faster). The same keyboard shortcuts in office 2003 work in 2007, so for the power user there's less of a learning curve (even the Alt+ menu shortcuts are identical)

@mjschmidt: You can remove an installation of MS office from an old computer and use the key on a new computer. Office 2003 even works well on new Vista machines.

@Ben Babcock: "but it was already several years defunct"
What? Office 2003 has compatibility packs for import/export of 2007 .docx files, and since 2003 was released MS has released lots of patches and service packs. In fact having the same major version out for 5 years, all the service packs have made it almost bug free. Compare with most open source products that insist on continuously mixing in new features while doing bug fixes, meaning it's a lot more buggy than something with spaced out major version upgrades.

@whiskey: I've done PDF presentations before. It's an easy way to combine source material from different programs (including powerpoint 03), and the presentation hardware can be almost anything. Any operating system can read PDF, almost all PDF viewers support full screen, and the computer needn't even be from this century. Even if I end up presenting in powerpoint, I always make a PDF copy "just in case"

johnsmith1234

I also am in the Office 2007 camp. I wanted to believe in OO as well, I really like the idea of open source, and free, but it just wasn't Office. Frankly, the much improved integration between programs is great, can't be beat. Not to mention that calc didn't live up to Excel.

As to the many who have commented on Oo's PDF ability, all you need to do download the office PDF plug-in and you're good to go. There's no beating office 2007.

Plus it has OneNote, the killer app.

kingman762

been using OoO on my mac for a while now, took out office 2008 and iwork as they were completely useless to me

kseve

I've been using MSOffice 2007 since it came out and OO.org, and I still love OO.org better. I find the interface much easier. Even after using MS Office 2007 for this long I still find the ribbon clumsy.

rubbsdecvik

@11hawkinst: well-said

gpzbc

Same here, I have my OpenOffice 2.4 set to save as .doc, .xls, etc. by default. I do a lot of sharing and sending of files back and forth with coworkers who use Office 2003, and I need to be able to read and write in these formats...

CallMeZoot

oh ya, also OO doesn't open many ms word docs properly. lots of basic formatting errors. sorry, not worth my time.

xlax

I'm not a big fan of Java apps, since they always feel slow and poorly-integrated into the rest of the system. So I don't use oO as much as I thought that I would when I switched to Linux. I've found that Abiword and Gnumeric can handle 99% of my needs, and I only use oO for more advanced work and Office 2007 compatibility.

Like many, I was an Office 2007 beta tester, and the only thing that I liked about it when I started using it was the new Outlook. It has a great space-saving layout and generally works well as a full PIM. But then I ran into the massive issues that it has with rendering HTML emails (it uses Word to render HTML, not IE - Word!) and I got sick of dealing with those oh-so-cumbersome proprietary PST files and switched to Thunderbird (although now I use Better Gmail, I still like Thunderbird a lot).

I also HATED the new ribbons (part of why I liked Outlook 2007 is that it doesn't have them). I could find my way around and work with them, but I didn't see any advantage to the new setup and it forced me to waste time and brain power relearning new illogical systems in place of the old ones. Plus, I personally don't like my software to look like a cartoon, and Office 2007 had exactly three themes to choose from (Manga, Disney, or mid-80s DC Comics).

Office 2003 was fine in my book. It did what it was supposed to do, without pretensions (or 3 GB of RAM). The old Office document formats (except for Publisher) had become the de facto standards, and I could live with that at the time.

I expect that oO will win me over in a release or two, but certainly not if it becomes more like Office 2007...

zoomZAP

Been using it since it was Star Office 5.2, and I love it. I know it don't have no fancy ribbons or (until now) docx filters, but it does what I want it to and all for zero dollars. In the nineties, I used to upgrade to the newest word or office every couple of years. I wonder how much it saved me to switch?

dlomax

Wow! I just downloaded the OS X version, and I. AM. IMPRESSED. Aside from window tearing during resizing, it feels like an OS X application. One really nice touch is if you move the main document window, all of the palette windows move with it. My friend as a recentish mac switcher doesn't like the Mac version of Office, but this he might like. It's really slick and a significant step up from both the 2.0 versions. I have yet to try 3.0 on Windows, but at least the mac version is pretty nice.

thebackwash

I can do everything in Open Office that I ever wanted to do in M$ Office. I think the last M$ version I used was 2003. Granted, I'm not really a power user, but I use some module of OO almost daily. Looking forward to version 3!

HeffeD

Does the new Mac OSX mean something like NeoOffice is uselses?

jwlyon1

There's as much religion in office software as operating systems. The differences in user interfaces are pretty much pointless. Calling one or the other intuitive just means one is familiar and the other isn't. Those who like MS Office will probably continue to find reasons to stay with it no matter what. Those who like OOo will probably do the same.

We all have our reasons for using what we use. Those reasons seem to differ between the two office suite user camps. MS Office users cite it being "intuitive", powerful and compatible with itself. OOo users cite price, open code and open file formats.

It will be interesting to see who's reasons prevail.

penguiniator

I'm fed up with all Openoffice, MS Office, all this bloat ware, The ms office ribbon, as innovative as it may be, is just a band-aid to the overcomplexity of programs today.

Instead of ONE word processor to rule them all, they should strip it down to the formatting engine and build smaller programs that utilize said engine. Want to print an envelope, fire up the envelope program that uses the engine using with only the needed needed user interface to print an envelope, not make pretty tables, equations, etc...

We spend way to much time worrying about what the presentation rather than the actual content.

benjamen

What's up with the horrible typo: "Exklusive"? (see shared spreadsheet screengrab.)

HTB

Big downside for the Mac version is that its Intel only ... no OO3 for us PPC folk :(

Ironic that I have to buy a new computer so I can use free software :p

Zundfolge

Why, why WHY is live word count too much to ask?!? That was the ONLY feature I liked in Word 2007 (yeah, like a few others here, I couldn't stand the ribbon...)

Yeah, I know, there's that python script floating around, but that leaves me with a little black windows sitting on top of my work. There's enough room in the bar at the bottom...blah, okay, rant done.

Aside from that complaint, it looks pretty cool..did I read correctly that it's got Solver and VBA macros? Isn't that the main reason people trash it and go MS...I guess that would explain why this comment thread is nothing but bitching about the interface.

shatteredmindofbob

No Outline View? Still?

Andre Kibbe

@benjamen
[en.wikipedia.org]
their already tons of apps that aren't bogged down by features and functionality, most of the time I prefer to just TYPE, with Verdana 10pt as my font: on Notepad, Textedit, Gedit etc.

Love OOo, price is right! ;)
Makes Microsoft give a damn about not feeding customers the same gruel, except when you want the same look as the previous gruel: that seems just impossible. Seriously does Microsoft deserve praise because they took Office 2003 and kept all the same features and just slapped on a new interface? breaking compatibility with earlier versions forcing some to export, others to upgrade. I think the ribbon is a step in the right direction, though it shouldn't have been forced one.

I'm totally stoked for OOo3 running on native OSX, seeing as with OOo2 you had to start X11 first.
Don't really use a word processor that much since I usually do page layout instead {InDesign).
The thing about Word is you can't expect formatting to look the same way on different versions and it's frustrating trying to create templates for users only to have them say that it's not displaying or printer properly, so with OOo your company can all be running the same version because it cost pennies to upgrade and there's no big surprises like retraining to learn strange new interfaces.

Costermonger

until Oo can fully read Access databases, i can't even consider switching. far too much of my research is bound up in Access files. sure, Base can read the data, but it's the forms, queries, and reports that i really need...

i still use Office XP, and it works great for me. 2007 is the epitome of ugliness. it is also very counter-intuitive when it comes to styles. they just don't work very well. and where did all the old styles go? the new ones look like crap. styles are essential when writing books because they keep things organized and let you generate table of contents and navigate the document quickly. can't do without easy styles.

garbanzo-bean

Office 2007 is pathetic and has ruined the workflow at my office.

symo

RC1 newer than beta2 then? i've been using the beta and it's been very crashy

looking forward to trying this out

Gonzie

I think that if you can afford Office 2007, it's really no contest. Works properly and it is the standard. Meaning no silly compatibility issues and no compromises. And if you hate the ribbon so much there's always Classic Menu to solve the situation

alexandr0s

I am aching to ditch Office for either OOo or lyx because I am writing my thesis and Office ALWAYS manages to screw up on long documents with lots of cross-references. Besides, I really hate the Vista-type look of Office 2007! The problem is, having written about 50 000 words already, and beind an Endnote user, the switch is a real pain... It seems I'd have to go through the whole document, reference by reference, correcting them to match whatever specifications exist for Zotero or BibTex. Just thought I'd ask if anyone knows an easy way out for me!

ninjaviking

@ninjaviking: i wrote my doctoral thesis with Word XP and had no problems whatsoever with cross-references. 100,000 words with about 130 inline images, their captions all cross-referenced with the text. it was lots of work, but it never screwed up.

i didn't cross-reference bibliographic data though. i used Access to keep track of my references, and in the end, i sent it all to a report for a quick and easy 'works cited' section that i then copy/pasted into Word.

garbanzo-bean

@ThirteenthTribe:
"I think @11hawkinst is the only person I've ever heard praise the UI in Office 2007" -- Count me among those who love the UI in Office 2007. And Office 2007 in general, not just word, but also onenote, powerpoint, visio, all of which I use daily and have been efficient and problem-free for me.

wellington1869

@ThirteenthTribe and everyone else:
I hate Office 2007 too.

There's this old theory that has driven program designers since the dawn of Windows: "Don't reinvent the wheel." If you keep application layouts the same as those which came before, your users won't have to dedicate much time to learning your software.

Office 2007 is not meant for longtime computer people who are accustomed to "File" and "Edit" menus. That is its downfall, really.

Not that it isn't great to appeal to the non-geeky via pretty and unnecessary flashiness. But you need to make sure it's all switchable back to the plain, old, gray, boring, textual, pure-functional interface that professionals are more comfortable with. We don't need the pretty pictures, and in fact they annoy us. We'd rather read commands from a list rather than form pictorial mental associations.

Office 2007 completely abandoned us.

equazcion

@dougwo: Yea that has been 99% of my experience as well

Darkmatter91

@zero456: thanks for confirming that.
Like many people using open office, i have to send files back and forth with colleagues and friends using Office 2003 or 2007.
If they took that feature away, I simply wouldn't be able to use open office. Not a matter of choice, simply wouldn't be possible.

andrewdmik

@Zundfolge: There must be a mistake, there's no way a 2 year old mac could be considered so obsolete it couldn't run the latest open office, after all Office 2007 still works on my 7 year old celeron with 256MB RAM, so I'd assume on Macs you can run the same programs on a plus as an air.

johnsmith1234

I use OO at home and have Office 2007 at work.

The M$ product is far, far superior - especially when doing formulas in spreadsheets where you are manipulating hundreds of millions of dollars and then trying to make charts showing the results.

Office 2007 charts are beautiful. OO charts look like cruft from the '90's. Want to get laughed out of the board room? Use OO for presentations and charts.

24fc

@symo:

Not being able to adapt is pathetic. Every successful person I know that uses Office '07 loves it. Once you get used to it, you're more productive. OO doesn't even come close.

unknownsoldierx

@alexandr0s:

Say what now? What is "classic menu". I can't find any such setting in the Word 07 options? Is this a 3rd party add in? Do please enlighten us poor ribbon-hating Office 07 users.

virgilstar

Office for $60 can't be beat :( If spending money on office was out of the question I think I would go with Zoho instead...

UnderLoK

@zoomZAP:

OOo is not a Java app, see above.

OOo will integrate nicely with KDE3, Gnome, or just a plain GTK theme.

earlycj5

1. Can't save to .doc? If thats right then this whole thing is stupid. I'm going to assume he's wrong.

2. The ribbon annoys me. I don't have Office 07 but ignorant people at the place I work do. So I get called in to fix their horribly formatted spread sheet and I have to find my around a stupid ribbon. It looks better. It might be easier but its just annoying to me because I don't have the opportunity or the desire to learn to use it.

3. Openoffice 2.x sucks for Mac. I started to use it...but it seems to be missing some features I need, it takes forever to start up, and it kinda looks like doodoo.

4. Both Office 2003 and before and Open office currently suck at formatting in Turabian (a variation of Chicago). Doing page numbers correctly in a single document is unnecessarily complicated in Office (and it reverts back to doing it wrong regularly) and as far as I can tell impossible in OO. Its fine with seperate docs for a title page or when compiled into a .pdf but the only processor to make it easy to do it right is the oft forgotten WordPerfect. I don't own it (no OS X support) but there is another contender out there. For Windows users in schools or fields that require Turabian WordPerfect is the best answer...until somebody (please!) makes an extension for OO to do it right.

chriscrob

I have to use M$ Office 2007 in the work, and let me tell you... I hate it. I'm a keyboard person, so it irks me that the whole interface is designed only for those who use a mouse. Sure, you can still use the alt key, but it feels like navigating through the menus is more difficult than ever.

But that is not even the reason i hate it the most. See, I use Sharepoint on the work too, and on a daily basis... And there was this feature on office 2003 to edit the properties of the documents in a view of sharepoint using excel... Well, its gone in 2007. Microsoft's page told me so. What the hell was M$ thinking? sheesh. When you upgrade to the newest version you sure dont expect a downgrade in functionality, do you?

I'm not a fan of OO, I mean, i like it, but it also has its own issues... I just cant believe people like office 07... I know, "your mileage may vary" and all that, but... sigh

anyways, my 2 cents

Thespamhere

i for one can't afford the MS Office suite and find the Oo version more than required for standard home use. my family don't actually recognise the difference and it saves me "borrowing" and then suffering the bloat that follows.

as for the saving of documents in MS versions the suggestion from the website and support fora is that this remains possible: odt as doc but not (yet) as docx, docx can however be imported and then saved as doc but with debate going on about the ultimate formatting issues.

the development group suggests that this option may be sorted in the final release but essentially it is fine for what i use it all for.

ffolliet

Does it have support for skins and extensions yet? If it does then it could be huge like firefox.. but the devs tend to refuse to implement any such "foolishness". sigh.

As someone who's never encountered Office 2007 I much prefer OO over the old MS offices. I have the previous MS office suite on my PC, but i always use OO instead.

that said, it does look like MS FINALLY made some worthwhile changes with the 2007 interface... thats why i wish OO had support for skins and extensions, so we could get some clever and original UI ideas, rather than just copies of office95.

soul_grind

"A First Look"? To be fair, the first public look was done in March in the article "OpenOffice.org 3.0's new features, an early look". That article contains many more details. Also, I believe that article is more accurate than lifehacker's. For example, OOo 2.4 already had PDF security features. The actually new PDF features in 3.0 are PDF import and Hybrid PDFs. Also, the new chart engine was a feature in 2.3.0 released a year ago (not the last major release). Finally, the correct term is only "OpenOffice.org" and not "Open Office" :)

AndrewZ

By the way, the Home & Student Version is licensed to install on 3 machines, so that's only about $33 per machine.

I would probably be looking at alternatives if there wasn't a package like Home & Student available.

ctb123

I love Office 2007, including the Ribbon Interface. It has made so many of the features of Office that I either didn't know where there or were hidden away accessible now.

I have worked with Office for years, but I actually enjoy using 2007, something that has not been the case with previous versions.

The Home & Student Version can be found for around $100, and MS's Ultimate Steal version for Students gets you the Professional version for only $60. Pretty reasonable costs for real Office.

ctb123

im no fan of MS software, but office 07 is great, the ribbon really does it for me.

unfortunately OO cant make there own version as MS has forbidden it in competing products.

MS should ditch windows, and focus on office and messenger, both still the best in their class

bagano

@ctb123: That's great...except that many classes on Office have a section on access which the Home and Student version does not have. You have to buy a higher priced version to get it.

theblackdog

My sister bought Office07, complete version, for $16 at her bookstore on campus. As long as students and teachers get Office that cheap, OpenOffice is in trouble.

OpenOffice, or any other software vendor, has yet to come up with a Microsoft Outlook alternative for Exchange Server. No native support client. Only IMAP / POP-3 / SMTP. If you want to get my attention, get an email client.

Office 2007 is pretty darn nice. Best version since Office 97. OpenOffice is 5yrs behind, but I think they do have a good product. If you are a new business with no installed base of MS Office, it's worth a look for cost savings. Otherwise, forget it.

WarBread

It's pretty. I'm sure it works well, and is an improvement over the previous version.

How's the performance? Is it still a memory hog?

jswilson64

@wakeboarderal05: yes it refers to docx

the same as if you were using pre 2007 versions of office with the compatibility pack installed.

I use OO at home for my basic everyday needs, and it works fine for that, however, for anybody that thinks OO is a replacement for Office, they don't truely understand what office is.

Office is a complete SUITE that includes an email client and the ability to map and utilize all portions of the suite from any other portion.

a good example of this is the ability to create an email updatable database where Access can be specified to create an email, send it to a designated group of recipients, and have the replies from this gorup of recipients be automatically integrated back into the database without requiring manual entry.

This can be accomplished because Access and Outlook can intercommunicate easily and without user intervention.

This is just one area where OO falls short (exchange like operation is another).

OO is for home and very small business use, and is perfect for this, but any larger business will generally benefit from the additions which are available in Office.

Buddha916

Office 07's UI is fantastic; OOo's UI is very lacking.

Still, it's an office suite, not some sort of UI showcase, and it does it's job damn well.

Phoshi

I really like the new UI in 2007 as well. But I like it for a different reason. It forced me to learn all the keyboard shortcuts for the things I use often. It just was to difficult to figure out where MS put those things. Now that I know the shortcuts productivity has gone up.

Ryan Fisher

xlax : OO Writer is annoying to use when you're already used to MS Word. perhaps relearning is worth the cost, but not for me at the moment.. if they modeled the menus and default functions like Word, i would use it.

Ahh, but are you talking about old school word. Or word 2007 (where they barfed menu items all over the place).

Old School

New school (or what I like to call, the blind as a bat edition / Seriously, who needs a paste button that big when CTRL+V should be burned into the memory of anyone who has ever used word processing software on windows in their lifetime)

/I got updated at work a day or two ago
/I haven't had time to go through the menus to see if I can get a more streamlined layout (without having to manually place all of the items).

lordargent

@dougwo: Plenty of high-performance applications are indeed written in Java. In bioinformatics, much of the new development is directed to Java, and much of the historical speed gap between C and Java has evaporated with successive Java releases. I don't know whether there's a fundamental difference between the sorts of applications you're trying vs those in my field, but despite its shortcomings (and it definitely has them!) and its historical inefficiencies, Java now performs very well.

gerta

@earlycj5: You're right, of course. I'd turned off Java in oO in previous system installations, but somehow I forgot about that this time. People like me who are frustrated with slow oO startup and performance should definitely check out the link in the comments above for turning off Java and other tweaks.

zoomZAP

$70 for Office 2007 Ultimate version ("Ultimate Steal") is all worth it. Having a Tablet PC with OneNote is Great!!! On top of Excel and Word. Although its not free, but it is a small cost but worth it.

mailbox01

I'm sorry, but this is one area where Open Source has lost. Office 2k7 is awesome.
OO.o works well, but the new interface of office is task based, and generally outstanding.
Using the tab system just works so much better for finding those functions you don't use often. And it works MUCH better for anyone who hasn't used a word processor before.
And it keeps 'normal' people from having to remember all those darn shortcuts.

Jack_Ruby

Still no tabbed documents, or even the ability to toggle between open documents in one window a la MS Word? To me, this is the most annoying shortcoming of OOO. And yes, I tried the extension that's been floating out there for some time, but it's buggy and disables full screen view.

jeirich

Why don't we just put up vote buttons for Office 2007 vice everything that came before it, and have done with this?

I see this discussion as apples compared to oranges. I'm not a student, and I don't steal software. So there's no way I'm going to pony up the ridiculous money MS wants for their office products. I'm glad to see that OpenOffice is being updated, because it's very useful and the price can't be beaten.

I gave Office 2007 a fair shake at work, but I use a few dozen different applications on different platforms. The investment required in terms of learning time has been too steep for me.

I'd start working on a presentation or report against a typical deadline, and get bogged down in having to find some feature that has to be in there somewhere (e.g. turn off snap to grid). After hunting through menus, help screens and/or google, I'd get past that problem and hit the next a few minutes later.

Sure I made progress, but that didn't keep the documents from being overdue. Twelve years with their previous dorked-up interface, and they decided it's time to start over.

I'm glad for all those people who had the time to get on top of their game with MS Office 2007. But I'm much more glad that all of my other regularly used productivity apps didn't get a major makeover at the same time. I'd be pounding the pavement right now.

ScottCh

The major stumbling block for OO.org for me was Excel. I use it all the time at work and I play with it at home. I am not an advanced user, but I write formulas and functions that are so different in OO.org that I cannot make the switch. What is OO.org's issue with the comma anyway?

jakeu1701

I really wish OO and M$ Office would get their act together and make their files totally compatible with each other... It would make the world a better place.

RenRen

I write this because alot of people here are talking about MS Office and not OOo:

Microsoft has three good products which they make most of their money with:
- Office (since XP), a really solid and fast product, except if you want to write your PhD thesis with it. In that case you're WAY better off with OOo or LaTeX (footnote placement problems and such are really bad in long documents.. even with 2007)
- SQL Server (scales nicely in comparison to others)
- Visual Studio (since the 2003 version), the new compiler they introduced in 2003 is just the bomb.

All other major products from Redmond are just unfinished crap in my opinion.

OOo has the major disadvantage of its VERY slow startup time (which is way better in 3.0). But it procuces very clean documents which still look as intended with 30+ pages. 3.0 is a major leap forward. Especially the PDF editing rocks.

rawfan

IBM Lotus Symphony is basically the same as OO, but it looks like it was made this century.
[symphony.lotus.com]

antman70

@Costermonger:
Yeah there are great stand alone applications that are lightweight, but they don't integrate together nicely.

In that Envelope program example, it would use the same text formatting interface as the letter writing, sign making, label making, blogging, etc applications.

benjamen

Open Office is good for the basics, which I'd say 70% of the households only need. Unless you're in business or dealing with specific classes at school Open Office can meet your needs. Just don't expect documents made in MS Office to look exactly right when you open them in oO. And formulas within an Excel spreadsheet probably won't work.

I've messed with oO and I do like it. But for the most part I deal with MS Office because it just works without any weird quirkiness.

quail

I got Office 2007 on my laptop not because I had to
(I bought my laptop from the vendor - Dell - didn't
have to and didn't get Vista either - Windows XP
with an upgrade option). I got it because, should
I go back to school, which I'm considering, they're
using Office 2007 as are a good number of business
users. It made sense to learn about it. As a tech,
I may have to support it, even if I'm not all that
crazy about it.

The little bit that I have used it, it hasn't caused
any major hiccups. Unfortunately, it doesn't play
nice with Office 2003 or earlier.

Open Office I've looked at and read about. From what
I can tell, it's still not ready for prime time.

If I have to transfer files from one application to
another, whether that application is Office 2007 to
earlier versions of Office or from Open Office to
Office 2007 or earlier, I need to use applications
which will "reliably" do so.

When I'm looking to be productive, it helps to use
an application, which, even if they had brain farts
in designing the interface, still integrates well
with its other components and has a degree of reliable
backward compatibility.

I agree with the earlier comment that familiarity
breeds productivity. Steve Krug, wrote a best selling
book about web (usability) design: "Don't make me think". The same should be applied to software.
A basic test for ANY application is, how hard does
one have to work at accomplishing basic tasks -
opening files, printing files, formatting, etc.
The harder one has to work at what ought to be simple
tasks, the less likely the software is to be used.

Die hard supporters aside, I don't think Office
2007 OR Open Office pass that simple test.

One person's intuitive is another person's pain
in the rear. Office 2007, as I said earlier, I
use it as little as possible, but, I think they
kept just enough backward compatibility with
previous versions of Office to win over users
of previous versions of Office - who may nonetheless
come, kicking and screaming to the new version.

Hopefully Microsoft will learn a lesson from
this. Or maybe they'll just go on "improving"
themselves into bankruptcy.

As little as I like Office 2007, I am even less
inclined in a Microsoft world to switch to an
application which comes indirectly to its
Office compatibility. A basic rule of backward
compatibility is that your best shot is to
work from within a newer application from the
same vendor to a previous version. It's not
a hard and fast rule as much as a rule of thumb
which works reasonably well, most of the time.

Trying to get to Microsoft Office compatibility
from open source Open Office, it seems to me is
likely to be an exercise in frustration and
aggravation in which people who generally use
Office could care less about the bells and whistles
of Open Office in porting their files from
user A to user B. My guess is most businesses
and business managers won't care either. Not
in a world where time is money.

From a support point of view - even as I am not
too crazy about the Office 2007 user interface,
the underlying idiosyncracies are largely the
same.

The same can't be said of Office 2007 / Open Office
by comparison. Open Office can only be so
"compatible" before they bring upon themselves
charges of copyright infringement. That means
that Office 2007 "compatibility" is come by
through the use of a different, perhaps more
familiar user interface, but one that comes with
its own learning curve and schizophrenia for those
who use Microsoft at work and Open Office at home
or vice versa. And best guesses at compatibility
without the benefit of ready access to the code and
design of previous and current versions of Microsoft
Office, unless they'd like to admit reverse engineering of Microsoft Office which brings its
own legal liabilities. Short of that, seems it's
easier to get to backwards compatibility and
usability from Microsoft than it's ever likely to
be the case from Open Office.

If the paths never have to cross, go with Open Office.
It's powerful and it's free.

But if you live in a backwards compatible world of
the program with the largest market share - like it
or not, Microsoft Office solves more problems than
it causes. Unfortunately it's, if not THE 500 lb
gorilla in the room, it's one of several (Google,
Firefox, and Opera being some of the others).

This is not so much an endorsement of Microsoft as
much as an acknowledgement of the fact that by and
large, the technological world we live in has a
very dominant Microsoft presence. From the operating
systems, to the browser, to the Office applications.

I don't see any giant killers on the horizon or
around the corner.

stpurniq

"You get used to it. It does take getting used to because it IS different. However, once you've gotten the hang of it, it's a much easier paradigm to deal with--at least it was for me."

When people say this about OpenSource software, the MS side has a whole bunch of negative commentary and pulled out of the air reasoning for why it's bad. But now since it's on their side of the fence, it's ok for something like Office'07 being different. On one hand MS-Office users slander OpenOffice for being "so different, why bother", on the other hand they embrace a complete redesign of the same product(2003 - 2007 MSO)...honestly I don't really see how this isn't hypocritical and full of fan boy bias.

to each their own.

grep65535

@dougwo: it's b/c java is interpreted language. which means it will never be fast. just fast enough.

qrius

I agree that the Office 2007 interface is very easy to use. But in reality, Google Docs serves almost all of my doc needs.

Myles

Another Office 2007 endorsement right here!

It is truly amazing, and this comes from a microsoft hater!

icedicicle

Seriously, aside from the .docx fiasco, Office 2007 s**ts all over OO.o. OO.o is very capable, but Office 2007 made things. I hated the ribbon at first, but it's indispensible now.

nkwu

lordargent:: Ahh, but are you talking about old school word. Or word 2007 (where they barfed menu items all over the place).

dude, i still use Office 2000 Premium. it's tough as nails for me. it does the job it needs to do. i can't stand office 07 and vista machines. is it better? i don't know, i don't care. you, MS, made me learn once and it's been working ever since, so stop reinventing the wheel so you can make a new product to sell! oh well i can't blame you for being greedy can i?

xlax

@carleeto: Yes, PDF export is the main reason I love OO.o!

I worked in technology workshops and we had some that were 3 hours long just to show what is different between 2003 and 2007. It was more of a demonstration of "here's what you used to do", "here's what you do now." Personally, if a software application isn't intuitive and requires seasoned users to attend a 3-hour long demonstration, it doesn't deserve to be called an "upgrade."

My experience with MS Office 2007 can be summed up in a single metaphor. The transition from Office 2003 to 2007 is like a major vehicle manufacturer creating a brand new version of the exact same car, but there are two unadvertised differences.

1) the gas and brake pedals are reversed, and
2) the vehicle now runs on pure soybean oil instead of unleaded fuel

Essentially translates as follows:
The same functionality is still there, but the act of determining how to perform the simplest of tasks became a task in of itself. A prime example of this was the ability to open a document from Word. The new interface removed the File menu and replaced it with the stupid Microsoft Logo button that had no identifying features. I, myself, being a savvy computer professional, finally figured it out after looking at the screen for a good 10 minutes. Wow, that's progress. Ten minutes to open a document in 2007 using the "Microsoft Office Button" versus a few clicks in the menus.

The second problem was the introduction of a new file type. Office users were conditioned to just saving as the default file type. Office 2007 changed the default and surprise, surprise, $#!T hit the fan and people couldn't open the files sent to them. The file types may be a step in the right direction, but it's not worth it if it breaks backward compatibility.

Great jeorb Micro$oft~!

CITguy

I switched to OpenOffice in early 2007 and haven't looked back. I miss the look and feel of Excel the most, but I'm doing just fine with Calc. One thing that gave me a lot of confidence in OO was doing presentations using Impress; I found it easier to use than PowerPoint--it generated smaller files and seemed to use fewer system resources when running.

onesix18

@lordargent: Looks to me like biased screenshots. Word'07 isn't maximized and is using print layout vs. Word'03 maximized and using outline or web layout. Tsk tsk.

Plus, static screenshots of the Ribbon are always misleading: it can be opened and closed with workflow-fitting convenience. When closed you get a minimalist look that offers more canvas space than Word'03, and frankly it was breathtaking the first time I saw it. It's one of my most favorite things about Word'07.

I was a Word'03 power user myself and still it was a hassle to do things like page breaks and change case and word count -- functions I frequently use. In Word'07 these are no longer hard-to-reach functions (it's one of the oft-repeated praises for the Ribbon).

Thank god for UI usability research. I appreciate ANY software maker willing to invest in it. M$ has a blog about their Office UI. Lordargent, you can go read about why the paste button is the way it is there.

lionel

To the creators of OpenOffice: I like what you've quite a bit, but I'm sticking with MS Office until you add Outlook-like capabilities: email, calendar, tasks.

SalvatoreKabma

It looks like they've increased the maximum size of Draw's canvas and are pushing it for making scientific posters instead of Impress. Any word on if Impress also has an increased maximum size?

tylerritchie

Unfortunately I'm still using MS. Being a university student, there is frequent group collaboration. Converting between OO and MS almost always led to a nightmare, so until OO is better able to import documents from MS, I can't commit to it. I sure hope that OO will continue to gain popularity so it will be the Office of choice!

dustinubc

Okay, I'm not sure this is right: I was using the previous beta of OO 3.0 and it can save in Microsoft Office file formats (and will open .docx files, too). All the previous versions of OO.org could open and save as any Microsoft Office file format; this was actually the primary reason I switched to it. I've been using iterations of OpenOffice.org (and StarOffice before that) since just before Version 2 came out, so I can't imagine they would take this functionality out of the new version! I would check, but actually had to downgrade to the stable of 2.4 since the beta of 3.0 I was using was screwing up the text formatting of my PowerPoints. Anyone else know for sure?

Oh, and EvanManrow - as LifeHacker has talked about many times, check out Evernote for another (free) version of a universal note-taking program. I've used it for years, and it is something I simply cannot work without these days. It won't have the interoperability OneNote has with, say, your word processor, etc., but it does have some rudimentary text-editing features built into it.

Cosmosis

As enticing as OO has always seemed, and 3.0 looks quite intriguing it lacks the bibliographic and citation options that Word 2008 does. That is being able to compose a Bibliography and footnotes as well as other citations in both Chicago and MLA style citations. If anyone knows if this is possible please let me know?

nightshrill

The article mentions not being able to save in Microsoft Office format. Is that going to change or will this always be the case?

lynch.cr

I'm very pleased to hear that the spreadsheets will hold 1024 columns. Some of the new features and other changes seem overdue, but the release of 3.0 is still very exciting.

I use OO in linux at work and it's the perfect crutch for someone who's no good with vim.

buradleix

Guys - what is OpenOffice for? It is the worse substitute for Office - let me open everyones eyes:

[www.kingsoftresearch.com]

This piece of software is 100% almost like Microsoft's and it's nice - REAL NICE!

shija03

@mailbox01: I second this, and as of this month you can get Vista Upgrade SP1 for 60 bucks at "UltimateSteal", you just can't beat it. I was skeptical about Vista and its bad rap but its an acquired taste and takes some time getting used to.

lamenopal

I really like how Office 2007's new interface takes up 1/2 of the would-be document editing area.

AlbernApheidas

@equazcion:
i don't like the "dont reinvent the wheel" quote. What if there was something better than the wheel? Maybe it's not just invented because everyone tells everybody to not reinvent the wheel.

I noticed that from 2006, the computer industry is booming with new users buying their first computer. Alot of those people are first-time users, all they know is web surfing, mail, video, music, picture. The office 2007 UI is very logical, and icons next to buttons simplifies things for new users. Basic things are in home, objects are in "insert", change margins and orientations is in "Page layout". I mean.. with small pictures it really helps everyone, even me, a long time office 97 user.

My brother hated it. He has the same idea as you, I guess. He hates changes. "It's not like the old version". Well. It's called software evolution.

And by the way, dude, windows really need to reinvent itself. About OOo, like many other, I tried to love it. Open source philosophy is the best.
But. OOo2 was sluggish. And.. docx.

aktee

Looks like a great suite. I can't see me switching to it from MS Office though because (let's face it) MS is the standard. If I want to send docs to anyone else they have to be in a format that can be read by Office.

eastcoastrob

me likey. I like open source stuff, especially since I have a computer that runs Ubuntu :-)

redspectre