RIAA Says DRM Is Dead

@Tony Bullard: He can't be smug if DRM was one of the "big guns" the RIAA used to have. Rather DRM is dying, it isn't all dead, or if it is dead it's just in the need of a stake through the heart apparently.

Zach W. R. Mollett

@Tony Bullard:

Although I, like everyone else hate DRM, Audible's DRM is not as simple as the others. They use some sort of proprietary wrapper for their audiobooks so that all approved devices can have that pause and resume where you left off feature. Even if the device itself doesn't have the feature natively.

Civ2boss

@FooSchnickens: Is that before or after building up an immunity to their cologne?

drjayphd

I'll be happy when the advocates of DRM are dead.

But since they were out-of-touch old codgers to begin with, it shouldn't take too long for natural causes to do them in.

P_Smith

@FooSchnickens:
I wonder if the MPAA will also follow suit and realize things like short clips on youtube HELP promote their products... for free.

Bluesk1d

@fall_farewell: Your point on entitlement versus just doing it is stupid. If you aren't entitled to it, and you do it anyway, that makes you a thief, plain and simple.

I hate thieves trying to justify what they do by wrapping themselves in rationalizations about how they are mistreated by the "industry" or how the "industry" sucks. You say that when you buy digital, you are buying lower quality. FAIL. You can buy the CD, in fact. You recognize that, but say its overpriced and it has extra waste. So recycle the damn thing. At the end of the day, all your blathering comes down to you thinking a CD is "overpriced" so you pirate. Post hoc rationalizations aside, you steal.

AmphetamineCrown

if these guys had any sense they would just put mp3 on a sdhc card that you can buy in stores and tranfer the music to ur mp3 player or computer. All the online stores jsut stop teens from being able to buy music in an easy manner. And teens reall buy all the music that these companies are looking to sell any way.

ZeroCoolFool

@penguiniator: True. Just like the legal system though, they don't always arrest the right person. But I'll take every step in the right direction I can get from these idiotic groups like the RIAA.

@Tony Bullard: Um I'm pretty sure Netflix streaming works in Firefox unless it's changed very recently. I was watching movies a few nights ago on FF3.5

Wow, last week I just finished ranting about Apple's attitude toward its consumers in my blog when lifehacker posts this great picture expressing my sentiments with far greater effectiveness.

@zmnatz: Sure, if you ignore the high-profile cases where they have targeted the wrong person entirely and refused to back off in the face of obvious evidence to the contrary.

penguiniator

@SaeedaAmphitrite: How does DRM distinguish between you distributing "your" music to the world at large from you making a mix CD for a friend? The first violates copyright. The second is fair use under copyright law. And DRM restricts that right.

penguiniator

@penguiniator:
I doubt that's what he meant.

AtomFury

@AmphetamineCrown:

Except, he never stated he was entitled to pirate, he just does.

I don't believe I'm entitled to use the pirate bay because they don't give me what I want, but that doesn't stop me from using it. No entitlement issue - it's just a fact. If they don't give me what I want, I won't give them what they want ($).

I would rather download a FLAC for free than pay for an overpriced CD, have extra waste and packaging that I have to throw away or find a place for and having to rip it myself.

If companies are going to sell music online, they should be providing access to an equivalent of a CD, which would be lossless formats in addition to other formats.

At this moment in time, when buying digital music, you are buying a lower-quality copy.

@David in Brasil: And that's been happening more frequently with digital books. I wanted one of those Kindles until I read about that happening. No way will I buy a device that allows the seller to undo the deal later.

penguiniator

@Draco_2k: Yes... let's embrace communism because a few greedy capitalists want to control every aspect of your digital life. Better to let the government have that kind of control over every aspect of your life than to allow a clueless money grubbing capitalist to make even one part of it difficult.

penguiniator

@pilferingpanda: Hindsight is only 20/20 if you utilize the set precedents to refine decision making on like issues. There are tons of examples that showcase how better production and logical media freedom are more effective than corporate and policital overreactions like DRM (VHS, Cassette tapes etc.) You're absolutely right about how media distribution is more like leasing your entertainment now. Which is much closer to the point than installing video game bloatware. It's not about the context in which extra steps are taken to purchase and use media, but the content of those steps and it's effect on use.

@FooSchnickens: I want to see House become a patient on Mental.

penguiniator

@infinitemonkeys: Well said.

@Tony Bullard: Because the RIAA doesn't deal with movies: that's the MPAA. DRM for MUSIC is dead.

crichton007

@Tony Bullard: Netflix Streaming DOES play in firefox now. They moved to silverlight for that reason. Not that I'm a fan of silverlight, but netflix works just fine now.

@Tony Bullard:

FYI you can play netflix in firefox. You just have to install silverlight.

Justin Leon

@KevinEldon: When you say that, think of the mix CD's you listen to in your car.

It may not stop people from pirating music, any more than licensed software prevents people from pirating it. However, it does allow for a reasonably priced subscription service, where you can listen to all the music you want, and in the case of Zune, where you can download 10 DRM-free songs per month for your permanent collection.

spcomputing

I agree with what some other users are getting at, DRM is not dead, it's getting there though. This guy is just trying to sell more music by saying that. There are people who will say, "Yay! DRM is dead I can now go out and buy tons of music!" and will then do so and we will be stuck in this weird middleground forever where some things have DRM and some don't and no one agrees on any type of standard.

shibathedog

The smugness of the RIAA guy is ridiculous. If DRM is dead, then why can't Netflix Streaming play in Firefox? If DRM is dead, then why isn't Amazon's Unbox usable? Audible.com? Shall we continue?

@nolabar10der: unfortunately i dont think most pple even realize that they are listening to something lossy... but hey at least vinyl is coming back a little bit

@FooSchnickens: I always wanted to buy new hardware to play the latest BluRay. I mean money is WAYYYYY overrated these days.

SlinkKay

What about that Zune subscription service? Surely it uses DRM, and why shouldn't it? The real atrocity there is that you might be seen in public using a Zune.

SamburgerHandwich

I'm completely amazed by how much money was wasted on the idea of DRM. C'mon, RIAA, you could have stocked a few foodshelves or something!

I would like to see RIAA dead...

shallnot

DRM may not be the right system for music downloads, but this issue is hardly dead. there are a lot of other business models that would use DRM to survive and might work better like online video rentals. The key to all this is consumers knowing the trade offs on DRM/non-DRM and being able to make those decisions. CDT did an analysis of this in a policy post. Check it out http://www.cdt.org/publications/policyposts/2006/18

Hopefully the RIAA is next

maruawe42

@TheFu: But that keeps the market fresh! You can't be cool unless you have the latest and greatest in blu-ray players. It's like walking into an A&F store with last year's threads on.

FooSchnickens

My thoughts? Only one thing: Duh (while doing that sarcastic House head thing he always does)

FooSchnickens

now if it could just be made retroactive.

@zmnatz: Those ads used to bother me for the same reason. That seemed like a brain-dead move from the get-go. I already *paid* for it; why were the ads directed at me? Ugh.

Are they finally smarter than a fifth grader? I'm waiting to see what horrible scheme they come up with next really.

Ajh

@nolabar10der: Logic any second grader would be proud of--"because they don't give me exactly what I want at a price I want, I'm entitled to steal."

If it is the same price, buy the CD and rip it to FLAC yourself.

Frankly, I think you are the one who needs to have your head unstuck from your a**.

AmphetamineCrown

@Avian00: No, that makes sense. I think the main impediment is proprietary formats that don't transfer between devices rather than DRM-qua-DRM. If I am renting a copy of Tropic Thunder to watch over the internet, I'm going to want a version I can choose to watch on my laptop, my streaming video enabled TV/media center, and my iPod/PMP for two days. Otherwise, I'm going to wonder why it can't be as easy as YouTube, which is free.

Every tech writer called this years ago, telling the RIAA that DRM would only hurt music sales. I never had an issue buying DRM free music from Amazon. I never ever bought anything that was chained with DRM. Long ago bands like the Grateful Dead figured out that the real money came from performing and selling merchandise, not selling records. The RIAA and the money backed no talent singers/bands, only want to sell music. These no talent clowns can't perform live and can't play an instrument. They are as much musicians and performers as I am a transmission mechanic.

adp113

@Jim Topoleski: I agree, but I guess hind sight is 20/20 and they will have to live with stupid decisions. Hopefully, they will stop using it in other places like video games. I don't like install loads of extra crap in order to play a game. Not to mention with DRM it's like we just rent the game from the company, we don't actually own it.

pilferingpanda

Finally!

KaylaSekhmet

@nolabar10der: again, you and i agree

Well. Finally.

Except everything else we ever buy is now so packed with DRM it's not even funny.

Why do I need a DRM-compliant Display, DRM-compliant Video Card, DRM-compliant Blu-Ray Drive, DRM-compliant Drivers, and the goddamn DRM-, region- and standard-compliant disc to watch a movie?

Getting something you legitimately own off Torrent sites just so you don't have to sit through restrictions and commercials and all the crap that comes on the disc is the saddest crap anyone has ever had to endure.

Maybe Marx was right after all.

@Gyroscope352: I agree with you 100% when it comes to movie purchases. On the other hand, DRM actually enables the rental model, which works very well for me. In this case, I pay less and accept ahead of time that the movie won't be available to me forever.

Ideally, I'd like to see DRM-less purchases (for the movies I know I want to keep) and continued DRM-self-destructing rentals. Maybe even a "rent-to-own" model where I can pay the difference to remove the DRM? OK. Maybe now I'm just dreaming.

Avian00

::grumbles:: 'bout damn time...

Now, if Amazon would stop being evil with e-books, we'd be getting somewhere. :P

I wish it were true, but last week's debacle with Amazon's Kindle shows that DRM is very much alive yet.

Why does everyone think just because something is consigned to the wastebasket of history (and deservedly so in this case) that it never had it's day in the sun. DRM was a victory in the sense it was never intended as anything other than a delaying tactic. When implemented, the music industry was facing catastrophic losses and Napster was growing by leaps. Napster collapse alone set sharing back six months while Kazaa and others evolved. Even this month, PirateBay was shut down essentially over this law. RIAA knew going in that they were fighting a losing game, that the technology of collective sharing and dispersed responsibility would only improve over time while DRM could only limit play on an individual item until someone stripped DRM out once then the barn door was open again.
In the years since the DMCA (and remember it's called the Millenium Act because it was implemented nearly ten years ago), the RIAA has had plenty of time to get its act together. Predictably, they have not done so any better than Congress solves health-care, but they have a money-making model again with iTunes and others.
Too bad the process didn't also throw the money back to the artists so we'd get real music instead of manufactured noise.
No one thinks the DMCA and DRM were more a symptom of a highly-disfunctional copyright and patent system than I, but it served and still serves to slow the gears (and spur the innovation) of sharing.

@martini1992: But at least then they are still technically punishing people who do something wrong. (Please don't start an argument on whether or not file-sharing should be legal)

They aren't treating the people who actually bought the products like criminals. They're only treating the people they suspect of doing something wrong as such. (Treating 50% of your customers as criminals is a lot better than treating 100% of your customers like criminals right?)

BRA-VO. It took you THIS LONG to figure that out?... Oh well. You'll repeat your mistakes OVER and OVER and OVER. That's the fun part with the RIAA and MPAA. They are just that stupid! Yay!

@Dan Harrington: Every try to put iTunes purchases on a MP3 player other than an iPod. Or put your music on several different computers?

I always figured it would be more appropriate to call it CURM (Customer Use Restriction Management). I'm happy to hear that DRM might be dead. Let's hope they make it so.

emuelle1

@DigablePlanet: Yup, we've all been saying this for years. The funny part is that when I used to tell me friends that I would not buy things from iTunes because of the DRM, they assumed that meant I pirated everything. I actually just still bought CDs. Much less restrictions.

It was like those stupid ads they used to play in the movie theater about not downloading movies. F you, I just paid $10 to see your movie. I'm not the guy you should be telling not to download it.

I don't mind DRM for subscription-services like Rhapsody or Napster that offer huge catalogs of music.

KevinEldon

About friggin time.

Warren J Thompson

so the RIAA has decided to resort to massive individual personal lawsuits instead of DRM (which it sponsored) to recover the money it claims it lost due to music downloads (rather that actually producing good, new music)?

gmerin

@Phoshi: MPAA? Are you learning? BluRay sounds great until you hear about all the DRM BS they've tacked on making it slower and breaking older players.

TheFu

Funny, had they listened to their counsel like 10 FREAKING YEARS ago, they might not have wasted so much money on trying to pursue it.

Jim Topoleski

It may be dead for music, but it's still annoyingly there for movies, software, and ebooks.

The recent Amazon deletion of books from Kindles shows how this is still a problem in the rest of the industry.

I agree completely, since iTunes has went completely drm free I buy a ton of music b/c honestly, its easier than stealing. Now if they could go this way w/ movies & tv shows I would be set. I was looking over the fall lineup dreaming of being able to buy a few shows on iTunes with seasons passes but if I buy them on iTunes I can't watch them on my Xbox & if I buy them on my xbox I can't watch them on my iPod. I know we're one step closer but just a little bit more...

aethiolas

Now only if the RIAA would die.

DRM is dead...in music. Let's move on to video, shall we (I'm talking to you, iTunes store).

@nolabar10der: And another thing...don't charge extra for it. The lossless version isn't a superior version of the product; it IS the product.

nolabar10der

I think this is just another ploy for attention. The RIAA also said they would stop suing people for sharing music online, but we all know how that went. I will believe it when I see it.

imfaral

when I could get music for free (pirated) I didn't really care if I gave it away for free. The threat of a lawsuit did deter me from continuing to downlaod pirated musit a long time ago. But now that I pay for drm-free music, I don't want to give something away that I paid for. I earned it, shouldn't the next person earn it too? funny how that works and sad it took the music industry so long to figure it out as I am sure there are many people who feel the same way.

SaeedaAmphitrite

Great. But when are people who care about sound quality going to get lossless options with the same in-my-underwear convenience of iTunes, et al? If you're going to charge me retail (or close to it) for a decimated version of the original dynamics, I'm going to continue to take risks by pirating FLAC and other quality rips. Then again, I'm sure that you already know this. It's probably marked under "things we need to do after we get our heads unstuck from our a**ses."

edit - I realize that I'm railing against digital music in general, and not the RIAA. I've been up all night, sorry.

nolabar10der

All DRM has ever done is annoy consumers who actually paid for their music. No single piece of DRM has ever stopped anyone from pirating music...

THANK YOU. Finally, someone in the RIAA camp realizes it. Took 'em long enough!

DigablePlanet

down with DRM. in this case the hyperbole is warranted.

just want RIAA to die now

I've never run into a problem with DRM, but this is is still pretty cool.

Dan Harrington

There'll be no DRM but they'll invest the money they save into arresting people.

Some kind of PR stunt. Maybe they feel they can afford to come off as foreward thinking, now that things are going more their way, re. tpb, usenet etc. Did I miss any? Those seemed like the biggies.

No DRM in my ripped tunes anyway, so... well... shrug. Whatever.

paintbox

Finally. Let's just hope other industries agree.

@Tony Bullard: I stream netflix in firefox all the time. I think they have made a plug in for it since you used it last. And that is not DRM anyway.

ethanthekiwi

While I hate DRM on music I purchase, I love the ability to pay $14.99/month to download unlimited music to my 2 laptops and (I think up to 3) Zunes. I can't burn it, but don't need to.

Since when is Apple's music DRM free?? they are in M4P format. (at least they were last time i bought them circa 4 months ago)

Dave(x0r)

I think DRM is a stupid idea overall.

However, I do take issue with how this is being reported. The quote by Jonathan Lamy is a question.

In my book, a question != a declaration therefore RIAA's viewpoint is being misrepresented here.

No one declared anything. A question invites further discussion and DRM is still very much prevalent in several ecosystems.

spittingangels

@Tony Bullard: Netflix streaming can't play in Firefox? How the hell have I been watching it, then?

BrockBrockman

@AtomFury: If it isn't, he certainly has the opportunity to clarify his intent.

penguiniator

Dig dong the witch is dead! But if you really think that this is anywhere near the end of the BS that RIAA generates, well unfortunately your wrong.

physco905

@Tony Bullard: Um, you can watch Netflix Watch Instantly in Firefox.

Bernie Wallace

I'll never buy another DRM album again. My fool fighters albums for the zune can't play on my sanza and after i sold my zune the only way to play them is by using the zune software which is not my music software of choice.

dhlt25

@Tony Bullard: I watch Netflix in Firefox. They finally made it available some weeks ago.

Cornflakes

Not to be a nitpicker, or anything... but Marx wasn't JUST about political change, nor was he an advocate of totalitarian government. He thought the path to proper communism was a worker's democracy. It was people like Lenin who thought it could only be achieved by a period of totalitarian state hegemony. It's also worth noting that Marxism isn't synonymous with communism, nor does communism entail Soviet-style government.

He wrote an awful lot about how the economic order renders and shapes the power superstructure of a state, and how that structures our daily lives and interactions, and our experiences. I have a feeling this is what Draco_2k was talking about.

I think it's a plus that the industries are recognizing that DRM is a problem, but as others have noted, we need to see DRM disappearing in practice, too.

It isn't inconceivable that there could be a sort of non-capitalistic approach to intellectual content, at least if capitalism means the sort of supply/demand, coercive model that the industries have been trying to maintain.

SibaniFuries

@Tony Bullard: you need that star taken away if you don't read an article before posting. the FIRST sentence clearly says "The RIAA have finally declared DRM dead for music" Music there bud, music.

heimbachae

@KaylaSekhmet: I guess I don't understand the new comment system completely. Why does your comment say it was "Edited by outerfringe"? It's only one word, what was edited? And how can someone else editing your comment? Is it for censoring purposes?

mahumphrey

It's certainly a correct statement in terms of music, which is the RIAA's purview.

With luck, and most likely time, I think the powers-that-be for video, and other content like PC games/applications, will look to the change in DRM for music and see that making things easier on their customers is the way to go.

Because, as it has been aptly said before, there's nothing you can't pirate. Format openness makes items more appealing for purchase. Restrictions only increase the appetite for piracy. It's as simple as that.

AngryGazebo

RIAA should have recognize that early. :D
wmv to iMovie on mac

macmatt

@AmphetamineCrown: Again, you miss the boat. No one is trying to rationalize stealing - that's an entirely separate ethical issue, and most including myself agree that it is objectionable behavior. The entire point is that there are no options in the digital distribution model for lossless formats, and that is WHY people steal. Note that I never said, "It's okay to steal because the powers that be don't give me what I want."

In so many words, I was trying to demonstrate that the industry whines about pirating, but offers no incentive for it to cease. I never, ever 'rationalized' pirating as OK.

But thanks for putting words into my mouth. You must be a hit at parties.

nolabar10der

@AmphetamineCrown: Erm, when did I say or even imply that stealing was an entitlement? I pirate because I have to, if I am to enjoy the same conveniences of the digital model that the rest of music lovers do. It isn't ight, and it isn't a justification. My point is that if the companies are serious about slowing pirating, they should at least offer good alternatives. They do not.

nolabar10der

My thoughts?
Wow, these guys at RIAA are really fast thinkers!

Bokusatsu_Tenshi

@penguiniator: Actually, I'm fairly sure Marx advocated a classless, stateless society, so there'd be no government for you to fear being under the dominion of. But what would I know; I'm just some pinko, right?

@nolabar10der: I didn't miss the boat. You keep going back to "there are no options in the digital distribution model for lossless formats." Horseshit. Buy the CD. Rip it to FLAC. Simple, easy.

Given the option of buying the CD and ripping it yourself, your entire point is that you feel... I won't use "entitled"... you feel... you "have to" pirate because you have no option to get a single track in lossless format? I want a single hot dog, but they come in packages of 8. Does that mean I "have to" steal one from the store?

Pirates steal music because they are cowards and recognize that can get away with it. Quit pretending you are riding some moral high horse. If you are going to steal, at least be upfront about it and don't pretend you are doing it some kind of protest or notice to the music industry. That is a load of crap.

AmphetamineCrown

@Tony Bullard: Because he represents the RIAA... Not the MPAA which is represents the movie industry.

They seem to be a bit behind in DRM.

mhr512