Avoid Tipping Your Hand In Salary Negotiations

@SamburgerHandwich: Unfortunately, the best ways to answer the question for you (the interviewee) seem to be either be stubborn or lie. I try to do my best to avoid salary negotiations during the interview, and save that for when I get an offer.

s73v3r

@Nick Poulos: Usually one of the best times to bring up salary renegotiation is during a performance review. Granted, this is only good when you have a good review.

s73v3r

@danurger: that's pretty smart actually! xD Makes you sound like a very "good" person too.

Lody

Employment verification procedures typically return salary information anyway. It's not worth your time to dodge. More important would be to say, "My previous salary was in A range, including B benefits, and I am seeking out C range, including D benefits".

What looks better? Someone who dodges a question or someone who responds intelligently and professionally?

(Hint: it's not the first person!)

Sean Masters

I agree about the importance of being straightforward while not giving away information that would potentially weaken your position. If you can achieve this without aggravating the interviewer, they might remember that these are negotiating skills employers look for.

I've had conversations like this:

interviewer: what do you make at your current job?
manducasexta: my target salary range is [the lower number is a number i'd happily accept, the upper number is ~5% more, e.g. $80k-$85]

if the interviewer looks askance or probes, i might continue with something like "i'm not comfortable disclosing [former employer's] salary policies, but i can tell you that my target range represents an increase [/decrease/whatever] compared to my current position because of the added managerial responsibilities [/tight economy in our field/whatever]."

when it applies, it's also been worth talking about why i made what i did at the previous place. particular skills, performance-based raises, years of experience in a particular field, etc.

manducasexta

@dsh: Except and until they respond with, "No, seriously..."

If they really want to know they will find out.

Anton Ochoa

@jordan314:
I've known hiring managers who interpret that as an indication that openness and honesty are not part of the on-the-job relationship... and respond
"I prefer not to hire you".

I initially thought it rude, but now it makes sense.
I generally say that they should offer what they think I'm worth, and if it's too low, I'll be upfront and tell them.

I recall a particularly upset employer when my response to their offer was "I'm underwhelmed".

Glad I said that... I've since landed a much better job!

ericslaw

@jonthomasdesigns:

Yea exactly, that's the kind of thing I'm afraid of.
There are some things in my favor though, I am the only person at my company who does what I do, and I think I do it very well. So I think I've made myself pretty valuable and proven my worth, but it's still an awkward conversation to start

Nick Poulos

@Bluesk1d: It's true. I never fill it in on an ap, but have had them com back and insist.

You could decline to answer but it's unlikely they'd accept that response.

But it is irrelevant and an unfair intrusion, of course.

Bocachica

I've found the pink-to-the-corner-of-the-mouth... "ONE MIIIILLIION DOLLARS" to be a particularly effective dodge.

I mean, obviously they know you're joking, but everyone loves Austin Powers so they'll appreciate the tactful pop culture reference and move on in their line of questioning.

@my secret identity: I just looked up what I could be earning with the link provided in this article. Apparently I make less than I "should." But it's okay, I'm happy with what I make.

@Type1: When you don't tip your hand, it's a lot easier to bluff ;)

jc364

I always say that I am not allowed to disclose that because of a contractual agreement with my former employer. This usually throws them off. However I would not be making as much as I got if I told them what I really made before. You should never ever tell them how much you made before.

Ninja007

Although this technique is not unreasonable and may be fine in other contexts, the idea of starting a new employment relationship with a lie makes my skin crawl. Plus, I'm such a bad liar that any skilled interviewer would see right through it.

bradnh

I suppose, under the circumstances, "Bite me!" is out of the question.

Counterglow

I spent a long time interviewing before I found my current gig. I don't recall what I said about current wage. My situation was somewhat different, as for much of the time I was making much less than what my last FT posiiton paid. I told them because I am doing a different type of work (which I was-call center, other as opposed to in my field (accounting)) it wasn't relevant. So if I was making say $12/hr in a call center full time, it wasn't relevant to the accounting jobs I was interviewing for. Those wer paying anywhere from $35k on up. The job I took was substantially higher than that.

If the question was "what are you looking for" hopefully I had done enough homework to

a) know the company's range for the position.

b) know what similar positions pay in the area.

I would always give a range, never an exact number. Or, if for whatever reason I did not know their range, I simply asked them, turning their question back on them. "before I answer, what is the range the company is looking at for this position?" type of question.

Runnin-Ute

@phoenix: I agree with this. My bosses at a previous job were looking to hire. They interviewed someone coming from a higher job and better department. He was being layed off so certainly he was willing to possibly take a pay cut, but in the end his current salary precluded him. They did offer, but they knew he wasn't going to take that drastic of a pay cut. Current salary matters and it may help an employer to know. I still wonder if you give your current salary info out if the employer wouldn't play off of that (offer above your current salary, but lower than what they are willing to go). I don't think it hurt my chances last time around.

mrosedal

I had an interview about 2 months ago. It lasted for about 2 hours and I met with 2 different people. (it should have been broken into multiple interviews, but my free day-time hours were few and far between)

Anyway, they did ask what I would like my salary to be and I replied: "Well, the most I've ever received per hour is (blank), but that was in a completely different field. Honestly, I would be good with anything you give me, because I respect your decision."

I got the job, and I make about 5 times more than I budgeted for. ( :

@Nick Poulos:Avg worker: "i would like a raise" Boss: "We are now hiring a new ...."

jonthomasdesigns

This is the hardest part of searching for a new job. The last time I was looking I was moving for my wife's schooling so I needed something no matter what, but if I had the luxury of keeping my current job and looking at the same time, meaning no pressure, well yea I would be less apt to reveal my salary.

mrosedal

This is a good point - and it's always a difficult one to get around. Some interviewers won't like the fact that you don't want to talk about how much you currently make and will figure you're hiding something if you want to talk about an arbitrary "worth," but speaking as someone who's been on both sides of the table, the interviewer already has a number in mind that they're willing to pay - they just want to see if you're in line with it, close, or over.

I agree with the comment above. This doesn't tell you how to answer the question. It would be useful to know how to address the question honestly while still making your case.

SamburgerHandwich

You could also tell them what you make/made, fudge the number a little by adding 2-25K (depending on your salary range) and explain that you obviously would like to be making more.

So if you were making 40K/year, say you were making 45K and that you'd like to make 50k...

Simple negotiating technique.

@djr1904:
Agreed. This seems almost ridiculous. It isn't like you're a A list movie star where you have the upper hand. Most places now days won't even consider you unless they have a full salary history (even prior to scheduling an interview). It definitely sucks because it gives them the complete advantage and leaves you with nothing but, unfortunately, it's becoming the norm.

Bluesk1d

"I prefer not to say" worked fine for me.

jordan314

Frankly, Ramit Sethi's arrogance is beginning to wear on me. He says, "It's just none of their business." as if you can just wave your hand and make the question go away.

Any interviewer worth his or her salt will recognize the dodge and press you for a specific answer. You can either refuse to give it and look petulant, or answer it and look almost as ridiculous because you've attempted to dodge the question but you've been pinned down.

If they insist on knowing it, you're going to have to tell them. Then, focus on making the case for why your current salary isn't equal to your true worth.

djr1904

@Negotiate Your Salary More Effectively

What about tips for negotiating a salary at your CURRENT employer? More like negotiating a salary raise.

Anybody?

Nick Poulos

I'm no expert but I think the other way around - I follow the rule of turning a lemon into lemonade.

When I'm being asked for my current salary I'm more than happy to reveal it, using it to my advantage:
Let's say I earn 4K a month and I want to get 5K in my next job - I say in my interview: "I currently earn 5.5K, but due to the economy situation I understand that I might have to go down to 5K"

It might not be the most honest thing to say, but asking you for your current salary is not honest either, so I can live with it.

Hope it helps :-)

danurger

Certainly, that's what all the job seeking books say, and I suspect it's good to be protective of the information.

As a hiring manager, I use previous salary as part of my evaluation. If it was way above or way below the available budget, then I have more information to determine if the person is suitable for the job. Lower - am I missing something; higher - will they leave for a higher paying job? It happens.

So if you can keep the previous salary quiet - great. But don't let it get in the way of landing the job.

aeronaut

But what if you're worth less than what you were making? Haha, it's a circle of doom!

Type1

@Devon: I have to agree. If my current employer gives out my salary information to someone over the phone, I'm pretty sure I won't need the new job OR the old job for at least a few years. The settlement will keep me in iced tea and sunscreen while I surface interval between dives in Manzanillo or Cabo.

Spetsdod

@jonny6pak: Your salary is considered confidential information, giving out that information is not quite legal and most employers are seriously recommended to not disclose what you were making. Otherwise your previous employers could open themselves up to a lawsuit.

@HurtsSoGood:

Agree 100%

@anschauung: "Everything [else] just buys you time," it should read

anschauung

You may gain a small advantage by dodging a clearly stated question, but why bother really? Your salary requirements will come out eventually, and they're either willing to pay what you ask or they're not.

Even if you are able to trick your way into a few extra thousand at the start, you're either worth what they're paying you or you're not. Subsequent performance-based salary increases will even out any discrepancies before long.

So many writers make it sound like the key to getting a good job is a series of gimmicks and obfuscations. It's not. Its working well and representing yourself well. Everything just buys you time.

anschauung

I'm a hiring manage and disagree with the advice. We simply won't hire anyone who won't provide a salary history. It's a rookie move to decline providing this information as even CEO's provide this information to boards of directors. Not providing the info is also a tip off that you have something to hide. Sure, I'll pay someone 30% more than they were previously making before but salary history is a part of a prospective employee's history - one that we feel we need to know.

AmandaGazelle

Companies are unfair and they will take advantage of you, have no second thoughts about it. I have seen it happen to friends. Always try to ascertain, do they really need you or are you one of dime a dozen?

If asked about prior salary, ask them what is their pay range for the job you are interviewing for. If what they tell you is way lower than what you make, tell them that you are making much higher and would it be possible for them to increase their offer. There is no harm in asking since you have an upper hand. Even if you are desparate to quit your current job, it doesn't hurt to try. They don't know that you are desparate.

Never, never walk out if they are willing to negotiate. Arrogance will not take you anywhere. Work with them. They can give better fringe benefits if not raise salary directly. There is a lot of scope for negotiation, arrogance isn't in the equation. Never say flat no. Never ever say "it is none of your business". Manitain a positive attitude and you will get what you want or very close to what you want or better than where you are.

arungupta

@jonny6pak: If my current employer gives out my salary information to someone on the phone we have bigger problems.

@van_line: Thought about this some more on the way home and wanted to clear two things up.

1) My apologies if I'm the one who sparked off the rudeness by saying "You're wrong". I didn't intend it to read as, "OMG LOL U R SO DUMB!!!1!" but rather just a statement. I know that stuff can get lost in translation, though. I was just pointing out that your comment was factually incorrect.

2) We're not talking about random phone calls, since I agree that those wouldn't pass muster. There is (or, rather, there should be) a level of security there between your prior employer and your prospective employer. The old employer should not be handing out info all willy-nilly and instead should be looking for a signed authorization form that states you allow this prospective company to do an employment history verification.

I agree that random phone calls seeking salary verification would not work the majority of the time. Of course I don't have numbers to back that up, but it would seem to make sense and fit in with the American expectation of privacy.

Sean Masters

@manducasexta: Great advice. In some places it may not always be this important, but I would 100% agree with you on anything involving a job that uses negotiation.

@van_line: You can feel free to be as rude as you like, but the fact is that companies can and do verify employment histories, and that verification often (as my linked Google search above can attest to) includes salary history verification.

Furthermore, I imagine that these verifications will become more and more common as the economy continues to decline and budgets continue to tighten up.

Sean Masters

@jonny6pak: I am a recruiter and again salary is just a shortcut when it's about "job fit".

If I have a candidate that is qualified for my position and his/her salary falls within the salary range of the position then I don't care what they made before.

van_line

@mfusion: yeap, I don't disagree. The catch is the "unless you authorize it" part. The law you're talking about falls under the (federal) Fair Credit Reporting Act if I remember correctly, and is exactly why so many employers require job applicants to sign off on an employment verification authorization form when applying.

I've had exactly one prospective employer not request employment verification authorization, and of course I gave it to them because I (1) had nothing to hide and (2) can actually negotiate instead of dodge.

Sean Masters

The discussions on here are driving me nuts. Lifehacker really needs to recommend job seeks read a recruitment and staffing textbook. Once you know the process modern recruitment utilizes, you'll see success in gaining more money, and great jobs, even if you do give your salary.

Salary questions come at two points, in the initial phone screen, at at the job offer. When you are at the point of phone screening, be truthful. The question is build to know if your needs and expectations fall in line with the job. You may think it's not screener's business, but it somewhat is as they need to know if your needs are way out of line, if you have some off equity perception at your current job, or if you're just looking to make the next leap up the ladder. Earning too much or too little, at this stage, is not a deal breaker as you have the option to explain yourself and move to the next stage. You also have the option to gain an understanding of the salary highs and lows of the job at this stage, as well as the benefits offered. There should be some discussion about total comp, not just salary, only to see if both parties are a fit with respect to comp expectations. Plus, remember, salary is not the only factor in moving up to the next stage in a selection process.

Whatever you do, don't lie. I can tell you from experience that employers do give out current salary when requested for verification. Some do it over the phone (I know, scary) and some have paperwork or require use of verification services. It all depends on state law, but don't think for a second that everyone in your payroll or HR department follows the law with respect to handing out salary data. We can argue the law all day, but what people put in practice isn't always the same. Your salary data isn't sacred.

My latest job requires I get this data on occasion, not always, becuase it some of our jobs involve deep background checks. I try to use the proper channels, but I've often received salary detail over the phone when my initial question dealt with a fax number for state required verification forms. I'll still send the forms and keep things on the up-and-up, but a lot of people don't. Seriously, write your local politicization if that bothers you.

Past salary also comes up in the job offer. At this point, you can keep it to yourself and play the negotiation game, but make sure you know what you're doing. I've seen many people play stern negotiators and lose the offer becuase they thought they could be pushy. I noticed one person here mentioned that he/she told the employer he/she expected them to pay the value of the work/job and he/she got a nice chunk of money. That's one tool in the overall negotiation process. I noticed another talk about total comp value, such as benefits, which is also another tool. You're base salary might be low, but think about how much you make in benefits and perks as well. All this data is useful in getting a good salary.

jonny6pak

@Sean Masters: I will make you a bet, call 10 companies and say you are calling to verify employment info and then ask what the salary is and watch as they hang up on you.

Only company that would reveal that info would be a "mom and pop" type business.

Look at it this way, if I work at Microsoft and I wanted to find out how much Google is paying it's computer programmers I could just call Google and verify employment on people.

You don't know what you are talking about, bottom line.

van_line

@jonny6pak: The reason people resist it is because most intelligent candidates would not believe this:

"Honestly, the salary question isn't meant to find out how to give you the lowest salary (for any good employer anyways) . . ."

Let's say you've interviewed, it's gone well, they're ready to make an offer. The recruiter has a budget range for a position of $70 ~ $80k, and asks what you currently make. If you tell them $72k, they'll probably offer you between 72 and 80. But if you tell them $60k, do you think that their offer would be the same?

Nothing's changed about the candidate or their experience, all of which have already been evaluated. It'd be like you going to look at an apartment, and demanding that the landlord tell you how much he'd gotten in rent from the last tenant before you tell him what you're willing to pay for the place. All that said, it's a buyer's market for labor right now, and sticking to your guns might be tougher than it was a couple of years ago. Definitely depends on how "motivated" you are to get the job.

Jason

@glassdevaney: Thanks! That was the best interview I've ever had. And the fact that I got hired in this recession is awesome too. And for my age, (pretty young), I have a great job in IT and I haven't even finished my degree yet.

I'm giving you a heart. You deserve it. Feel free to use that quote whenever, and give me a holler if it works out for you.

@Sean Masters: it is against the law (unless you authorize it) for an employer to give out anymore information than the to verify your employment and the dates of your employ. anything other than that is against the law. [i'd look it up but i'm logged out of westlaw right now]

the case would fall under torts and be difficult to prove. but if there is any evidence then you woul dhave a strong case. this is why employers are extremely hesitant to say anythin besides verifying employment and the dates.

@joeny1980: you might be thinking of a background or credit check. I'm talking about HR department employment verification procedures. Many companies can and do verify claims made about past employment, including salary verifications. Some groups, such as the US military, volunteer salary information without even being asked.

Here's a quick Google search for "verifying employment history". Over 3 million matches. Obviously I cannot go through all of them in a reasonable time frame, however half of the links on the first page alone discuss and/or describe obtaining salary history as part of a standard employment verification.

Sean Masters

@Andrea Hinkle: Wow, that sounds like a horrible employer. I think you did the right thing.

jonny6pak

@Ninja007: Because they do. My I get that info all the time when I'm helping with recruitment because my clients have jobs that require background checks. At it's hardest, it just takes a little paperwork. I know that may seem scary to some, but it's a fact of life and if it bother you, make sure your company has controls in place that require proper paperwork, or move to a stat that requires use of verification services. I don't mean to burst your bubble, but you would be surprised at what a simple phone call can get.

jonny6pak

@joeny1980: IAMNYL, but as someone who verifies past employment and is an attorney, I can tell you that it's not illegal. Some states have different rules and may require the use of a service such as The Work Number, but any HR or Staffing consultant worth their salt will tell you to seek a salary verification in the process. Not for the salary negotiations, but because it's going to send up a red flag if the person is searching for a high paying gig and they weren't even close to that level of pay in the past. Of course, each circumstance is different, but the question about pas salary should come in the initial phone screen just as one measure to determine if the employer even offers enough to get the candidate in the door to work. If I have a job that's only at $40k and and the person tells me they are currently making $70k, I'll tell them the highest we can go salary wise to see if this person is actually still interested. It's a valid discussion point.

jonny6pak

@van_line: if even one company releases salary info (and many do, particularly public companies), you would be wrong in saying "No one".

You're wrong.

Sean Masters

@se7a7n7: This type of advice is killing me. Hiring managers call paste employers to verify past employment, which includes hiring date, separation date, and salary. Any employer doing this will know you lied and will not want to make you an offer.

jonny6pak

@urbanturban666: And people still hire you after they call your previous employers to confirm past employment and found out you lied? Honestly, the salary question isn't meant to find out how to give you the lowest salary (for any good employer anyways), it's a measuring tool in the screening process, and it's a minor one at that. I can say that if recuriters failed to ask that question, hiring managers will end up wasting their time on far more duds than you would expect.

The salary question always leads to more insight into past job experience and the candidate's perception of their own worth and the equity they perceived in work versus pay at their previous job. It also gives good insight into a person's personality. One might argue that there are other ways to get at perception of equity and experience, but there's not much real-world proof to such a point. I don't recall where I heard that, but I know it was in one of my many Staffing classes from grad school.

Everyone gets so uptight about past salary, but it's just one point on a massive scale to help predict job fit. If someone really wants to know how to work the salary question, and any recruiter question, read a text book on job sourcing and you'll be an expert the next time any of those subjects come up. From an employee perspective, it's more important you know how to negotiate salary when the job offer comes. The past salary question in the screening process isn't as important.

jonny6pak

My worst salary negotiation, ever. Right out of college (the first time)..

Them: What did you make at your last job?
Me: This is a different situation. My last position was an internship..
Them: Ok well we'll either give you $7 or $8 an hour. But we only give $8 to people we think are worth it...

So I picked up my little portfolio and left.

Andrea Hinkle

@danurger: That works until the recruiter calls your current employer to confirm employment and current salary and they find out you lied. I don't recommend someone lie about their current salary.

jonny6pak

@van_line: It matters a lot from the recruiters perspective. From the employee perspective, money just gets people to work every day. As you noted, an employee may not leave for 10k when the work is engaging. However, from a recruiter, it's one piece (just one) to the puzzle in trying to make a prediction in job performance. Depending on the situation, I may not want to hire in a sales rep into a position that has a base wage of $40k when the candidate is used to making $80k. There are a huge amount of additional factors to involve in the decision, so it's not as if salary is the deal breaker, but it often will steer phone screenings into a situation where the recruiter can determine whether this person is a good fit in the company given the pay cut/increase.

jonny6pak

@van_line: unlike cars, the price of experience usually goes up... with cars you gotta wait a long time before there value goes up after a long downward streak....

urbanturban666

@ericslaw: i still think its stupid that they are allowed to ask that... just look at the credentials and make an offer. i do agree that salary should be between you and the person paying it...

urbanturban666

@bradnh: It's business, not Bible camp.

@djr1904: i usually lie about that... just to give them the satisfaction of an answer...sethi makes a good point, they should interview you w out asking that and then they can make an offer if they like you. i dont think they should even be allowed to ask that...

urbanturban666

Just lie.

Angry Numismatist

@Sean Masters: Typically an employment verification would not and could not verify your salary, so this is inaccurate. And its not about dodging its about negotiating tactfully. I've heard a hiring manager say about someone "if they negotiate that hard for themselves, I'm excited to see how hard they will negotiate for our company".

joeny1980

@Ninja007: All applications I've seen have a box to check if you agree to allow them to contact your former employer.

They call them and ask for HR and say "did so-and-so work there? They said their title was x - what's that, oh, they weren't the sr. network administrator, they were the level 1 tech? Hmmm, they also told us they made $1M a year. Is that so, they only made half of that..."

JJMan

@manducasexta: I've been on both sides of the table. And this is the BEST advice on this post or in the comments!

If they ask you the question directly just restate it with a slight variation and tell them what your target salary is. Everyone knows that this is part of the game, and if they are business savvy they'll appreciate that you know how to negotiate.

joeny1980

@Gener4l_Ts0: But does the employer drop the BS and tell you what the previous person made, what your colleagues make, what your immediate superior makes, etc? One-sided openness is just contributing to someone else's deceptions.

orlo

@Spaceboy: when you are buying a used car, do you care what it sold for originally the first time? No because it doesn't really factor into what it is currently worth, right?

van_line

@Sean Masters: Not true.

Only thing a company will verify is time in position and title. No one releases salary info.

van_line

vote: disagree

Cut thru the BS. When asked, tell them. If you dodge the question, then you feel/look like a used car salesman. This bit me once, it won't bite me again. If asked, I tell them straight up, AND THEN I followup with the extra toppings.

@aeronaut: But why does what I have made in the past matter if I am qualified for your job??

Find out what my motivators if I am someone that is driven primarily by money, you will lose me for $1 dollar more, no matter what I am making. If I am driven by the work and you offer me an engaging working situation, I won't leave for $10k increase.

van_line

I've never answered that question and never been 'pinned down.' I have had to say "I don't think that my compensation package at any previous position is relevant -- I'll consider any reasonable offer." And they've always taken that.

SamsonAmyclas

It's been awhile since I've done the interview thing because I have been at the same job for so long.

But I do remember having a few interviews and even candid conversations with potential employers about the positions they would want to offer me.

There were a couple that had what the job entailed salary-wise and I told them no disrespect, but the commute I would have with you would be 4 times longer than my current commute, dealing with earlier starts, longer days, less family time, more stress, so on and so forth. Sorry but the top end of your offered salary doesn't cover the extra time I'd have to take in order to benefit your business; I'd need a better offer.

And sometimes, just with comments like that you can see their eyes light up, like you can easily see past the initial offer on what they'd like to give, as opposed to what they know they need to give, in order to acquire a new valued team member.

Take it for what it's worth, but it's a legitimate scenario in a few of the conversations I've had. The more and more time that business takes up...it better be reimbursing me for my time, gas, maintenance, stress, etc. Sorry for anyone who disagrees, but those are simply my terms and I haven't gone wrong yet by explaining them to anyone who has been interested in my services.

bbinder

I know this is going to be lost, buried in the second page of comments, but it's worth saying. When they ask what you're looking to make, just say:

"I want to be flexible and make sure I'm considering all of the factors, such as the commute time, and any benefits you may be offering. I haven't looked into positions in that (job title, location, industry, whatever excuse you want to use) so what is this position's salary range?"

Doing short term IT contracting for the past few years, I've used this line A LOT, and it works like a charm.

Whenever I've been asked this question I've been honest. If I was hiring someone, and they won't even answer a simple question, and instead treat the interview as some sort of stupid game to show who's the more skilled negotiator, I'd end the interview right there.

Actually, I've had some pretty lousy, low-paying jobs, and when I get laid off from my current job in a month or so, I'll have to take a considerable pay cut to find work (this is in Michigan). Don't listen to advice like this. Be honest, and show that you appreciate honesty. If you're applying for a job and you think the interviewer is asking you a question because they want to lowball you, seriously question whether you want to work for/with people like that.

black_rob

@my secret identity: That's an amazing quote. Seriously. I just had to tell you that. Not only does it put the ball in their court, but it makes them feel obligated to take care of you, since you respect and trust them. That's really clever!

@djr1904: IF you really don't want to answer it you might try to dodge by being contemplative: "Wow, I wonder how many people answer that question truthfully?"

@Nick Poulos: Another great time to mention the subject is when the boss is adding a new responsibility or new project to your stack. You could just say something off the cuff, like "Whoa, cool new project. I should ask for a raise!" Get's them thinking about it at a time when they're asking you for something. Then again, if they just laugh out loud, like it was a big joke, you'll get a feeling for whether the time is ripe or not.

@RickS: Where do you get the idea that employers just hand out salary information over the phone to some stranger?

Ninja007

"Not enough which is why I came to you. I understand you pay well for the experience and knowledge you are hiring."

easy2panic

@Sean Masters: So all one has to do to get salary information is to act like they're hiring a former employer? Do you know this for a fact?

Ninja007

A former employer will never reveal your current salary when they call in references. If you work for a not-for-profit, by law they have to reveal the salaries of the top 10 highest salaried employees to maintain 501(c)3 status. If you work in a job that requires a credit check to secure a job (financial institutions, some law firms and government jobs with security clearances) then your future employer can guesstimate your current salary. In short: you don't have to reveal your salary and your current employer is breaking the law if they reveal your current salary to a potential employee. The advice in the post is dead-on accurate. Talk about what you're worth to your current employer and what you'll be worth to the prospective new employer. It's a great opportunity to showcase yourself in an interview. Lastly, don't inflate your salary. Employers know that you're lying if you throw a number at them, and they know the person they get at a job interview is the best they can ever expect of that person once hired. So, if you're starting out by lying, what does that say about how you'll act after you've secured the job?

GalvinEleazar

I think saying it's none of their business is a little unfair. They're possibly going to be paying you, they'd like to know where you're coming from. Obviously it's in their best interest to pay you enough to keep you happy if they think you're valuable. Even if you lie and say you were making $5k more than you actually were, if they don't think you're worth that, you're not getting hired. If the next guy comes along and says he was making the same amount but presents himself much better, he'll get the job. I think desperation plays in revealing your salary.

Spaceboy

@bradnh:

I agree, and in the social service world people usually know generally how much you're making. Being a Social Worker, people would see right through me at an interview if I added $5k to my current salary. Working with a smaller number could work but at that point it doesn't seem like it's worth lying about. I'd like to earn that higher salary.

Spaceboy

When you apply for a job, they ask for previous employment information. In this day and age, all you'll get out of a previous employee is two things. 1) Confirmation of employment with hire and (if appropriate) termination dates, and 2) Salary information. In other words, if an interviewer is interested in you enough to call your previous (or current) employer about you, they will get this information just by asking.

I would not bring up salary in a first interview, myself, so I would expect the same of a prospective employer. I also wouldn't lie about it, as it's easy enough for them to check.

If you don't believe me, contact your HR department. If they are like my company, they'll tell you the same thing.

RickS

I so hate this question. It's on par with "So, tell me about yourself" at the beginning of an interview when they have your f-ing resume in front of them. They actually don't want to know about you (what more do they want, it's all on paper), they just want to see how you respond (and what you think is important). In that spirit, when in negotiations for my current gig I decided I didn't have anything to lose and thus said, "Well, let me tell you what I would LIKE to be making" which was $20K more than my last job (yes, ballsy). I ended up with $22K more. If they press you on the answer I would give them a ballpark like "low 70s" or something. This was the first time I negotiated a job salary, usually I just sheepishly took what they offered. (And in this case, it's not like they offered something first I could then work from, they just asked what I was currently making.) Negotiating a job is part of accepting that your talent is worth something! The back and forth is caused by employers/recruiters not revealing to a candidate the actual salary range up front, which I think is pretty crappy.

zenofmac

@danurger: Yep. Lying during an interview is a good way to get a job.

@Spetsdod: What would be the legal basis for your law suit?

@Lody: It's about as smart as lying on your resume. Salary information is easily verifiable. Why lie?

Instead say something like "I currently make 48k a year, however I feel that I'm under compensated for the work I do for my current company."

You shoudl already have your salary homework done as well, cuz the follow up question is naturually, what are your salary requirements?

"First, you've laid out all your cards. Second, you're admitting that you are inexperienced in interviewing and negotiating."

Okay dude. I say you're full a carp.

If you're being interviewed, and you asked a question, how would you like to be given the verbal run-around? No, so why treat the interviewer that way?

Being honest is far better than trying to be slick and conniving. Be honest. You'll get far better results.

And if the person interviewing you isn't honest, then you're better off not working for their company.

@Spetsdod:

The discussion interested me enough to look up various state laws concerning this and sadly I wouldn't suggest you bank on sipping that iced tea. :(

At-will employment and a lack of solid regulations basically say that a potential employer can ask if you like to dress up in a pretty pink dress and throw your feces at the wall or if you really make $60K a year doing administrative work. The previous employer doesn't have to answer if they don't want too, but then again they can say more than is necessary. You'd never know either way.

gravitus

@GasGiant:
That is precisely what i did. I recently was given a team of employees for me to "Supervise" so i used the opportunity to renegotiate my salary and got a 20% boost!

Dave(x0r)

i do not agree with this. it's a straight question, it deserves a straight answer. when i buy something, and i ask for a price...i expect the salesperson to give a price...i don't expect him the "oh-this-worth-the-price" song-and-dance hoopla.

so what if they know your salary? all it does is set a starting price of negotiation.

@Spetsdod: Except you would have to actually find out they gave out that information, and be able to prove it in court.

Don't bother dodging the question - it makes you sound unnecessarily divisive and can lose you a job. Simply state a salary maddeningly higher than you actually make, but state that money isn't why you're there - it's the job that matters. Asking for previous salary is as meaningless as asking about a persons "strengths and weaknesses" - anyone with half a brain is going to have canned responses to such a question. Jobs are about relationships - and while budgets are a big part of it, rarely have I seen a candidate be unrealistically far from a position pay grade. It's usually 10k or less, and we're always willing to negotiate for the best people. The economy is in the toilet, but business goes on and good candidates are still worth what they're worth!

EmeryBias

I was just asked this question. Here is the thing, the interview process is all about building trust. The moment you are caught displaying a poor disposition, exaggerating, let alone, lying it's bye-bye. In this market I'd rather not take chances.

Anyhow, I didn't answer at the moment; I told this guy I would revert shortly. God bless the internet; after checking salary.com, glassdoor.com, etc. and a few job postings I had a very clear idea of what I should be making based on the position I was being offered. I told this guy, "I am making XYZ; I am expecting an offer in the range of A to B [roughly 35% above my current salary] given the compensations out there and my years in the field".

Micho

I agree that dodging the question is probably a bad move. It may be best to simply answer the question without missing a beat. I would take one of a couple options: First, you could point out that your total compensation package was different from your salary and explain why you accepted a lower salary. In other words, you could imply that you won't accept any salary that is higher than your previous job.
Second, you could argue that you have more options than simply keeping your current job (and salary) or accepting their offer.
If you don't want to answer the question, I would take the brutally honest approach: "If you do consider offering me the position, I don't want to tip my hand before you have made an offer. You know (or will know) the maximum you are willing to offer and I know the minimum I am willing to accept. As a job applicant, I'm already in a precarious situation. I'd prefer to keep the playing field as level as possible. Is that okay with you."
Regarding Sethi's calling the question, "It's none of their business," I don't understand his point. Does he mean that the valuations of past employers do not provide any help when predicting the future performance of an applicant? If so, he is flat out wrong. Let's remember that this isn't a random stranger grilling yous on the street or that the interviewee is under any obligation to answer. Answer or don't answer, but don't be self-righteous about it.

"I'm under a non-disclosure agreement with my last X employers."

Then let the silence speak. Almost all professional positions require non-disclosure agreements. The new company will ask you to sign one on the first day, right?

Another tip is to review all the legal agreements before you actually accept a position. After you've quit your prior job, you really don't have any negotiating power. When the HR guy asks if you accept the position, tell them you'll need 2 weeks from the time you've been provided the total legal agreements you will be expected to sign in the first year. This probably won't work at IBM or HP unless you are dealing with a C-level position.

I found a guy for my team. The other interviewers liked him too. The HR guy started insisting on prior pay stubs to verify employment and salaries. The guy stalled for a few days then never sent them in. He'd taken another position for more money. BTW, he was worth $20K more than our offer, even with limited professional experience, but our offer was "competitive" for the role, not this specific person.

3 weeks later, I left that job ... nearly doubling my salary in the process. A month later, my boss, a VP, left. Then all the other VPs left within 2 months. Timing.

TheFu

The only job I ever interviewed for and DID NOT get an offer on I tried this very technique.

They actually sent in three different HR people to try and get me to divulge my current salary. I continued to refuse telling them at first that I was uncomfortable doing so, then I tried telling them that I felt my current salary was not a good reflection of my worth.

Nothing worked, I finally gave up the goods, but I think I was labeled as uncooperative. As I said, they made no offer and it's the only interview I've had in which that happened.

I my opinion, this is a risky venture. You might try and keep it secret but if they push you, I say give up the goods.

@manducasexta: If you give the interviewer a range, isn't it likely that their offer will be at the bottom of the range you gave?

John Cooper

You guys must live in an area or work in a field that is actually hiring. I have been unemployed for just over a year (after 25 years of continual employment). In Indianapolis, at least, I am seeing positions I previously held on contract going for less than 50% of what I made on that job. Were talking under $40k per year or less here. It's painful. I also was informed by a large multinational I used to work for that the position I CREATED and held for two years required a MASTERS degree as a minimum education level!

My solution has been to take the money the state offered (wow, factory guys have it good) as part of being laid off from a manufacturing facility (I was the network administrator) and go back to school for a completely different field.

I still have a couple of years to go, but I am splitting between business and psychology. I should be good. Or at least employable... I hope. Of course, I am also going for my CCIE... just in case.

charnov

@van_line: But I'll leave for 50% more!
Still, I agree. I left last job for 18% less pay. But the benefits and condition are actually better! I seem to have more cash on hand, and less stress (well, relative). And the job varies (I'm not always sitting in spot, the work is challenging, and every so often I get a "thank you" for doing above my expectations).

But a word to the wise: they can't find out what you make, unless YOU tell them.

SigmundTheSeaMonster

Not very helpful advise honestly. While what you made previously may influence what they are willing to offer you, unless you have a very good reason to not disclose that information (ie contract policy), you will probably come across as someone that others may not want to work with. So far the advice on here has been don't tell them how much you made, and don't tell them how much you are expecting for pay until they offer first(from a previous article).

Really, know how much the job is worth when you walk in the door (or at least an idea), be honest about your pay history, and expectations, and be willing to walk away if they won't give you what you think is reasonable. If you can't afford to walk away from a job offer, can you risk losing the job offer by pissing them off in ngotiations?

AjaxIII

Not sure about you guys. Here in Asia, Every ex-employer will give your past salary information (including other info) to anyone who calls them. Period...

Stop wasting other people's time by continuously repeating like parrots how can do they that and this law and that law..

you must be living in extremely perfect world somewhere on Mars or something, or perhaps you are too dang big (fortune 500) CEO, so that your former employer might get into trouble by revealing your past salary. if not, then please stop repeating these same questions.. You guys sound like those whining females on desperate housewives,. oh well,.. some of you maybe are females..

mohkahn

@Jason: Actually most organizations would have salary bands for every position. So it doesn't really matter if you currently earn 60K and the company is budgeting 70K - 80K for the position, you would be offered the 70K because that's what the company pays its employees in that particular band. If they don't, they know very well that you'll quickly find out that you're being paid less than your peers and will become dissatisfied.

That said, here in India, you are expected to disclose your current salary and provide proof of the same and most employers will not take no for an answer.

Vivek Thomas

I recently read and used the techniques in Jack Chapman's "Negotiating Your Salary: How To Make $1,000 A Minute" for my interviews, and would recommend it highly. It has the unfortunate tone of a car salesman like other books in this genre, but it does a good job of explaining lines of reasoning and techniques for negotiating compensation, benefits, and perks.

SwastiMarigold

Question: If 2) is true and someone can request this kind of information (salary) from your HR, do you also have a policy not to discuss your salary with your coworkers? Otherwise, you'd just call up the HR to find out how much is so and so making, right?

WarrenRaphman

Wow, I've never experienced such dullards in my life. You people in the 45k - 85k range (analysts, programmers, project managers, etc.,) you are really clueless. Listen to what Sethi is telling you. He is the expert. You are not. Clearly. It really sounds like you are negotiating for basically the same job at a similar firm for a few thousand more. Maybe your project is finished; maybe you don't like your job anymore. But you clearly aren't to the level where you are being scouted and represented by a top headhunter. Your advice betrays that fact. Did you ever consider that the author is speaking of serious money and responsibility? He is absolutely correct. If you walk into an interview for a truly great position and answer anywhere between 40k-85k you'll be shown the door so fast you'll wonder what the hell just happened. Good luck with your methods though. Who knows, you may just land a job near a gas station which will sell the next winning lottery ticket. No one would hire any of you with answers that specify figures. Period.

EudoraCosta

@Danurger I'm no expert myself but your method may work even better if you say, "...due to the economic situation..." If you're ok with dishonesty justified by your perception of his dishonesty??? Maybe you and he are a match made in heaven after all. I recommend just going balls-to-the-wall and tell him your a self-made millionaire and fly shuttle missions on the weekend. Thus you are able to be flexible with your salary demands.

DariaCadmus

@my secret identity: I have a couple of interviews coming up, and I'll most likely practice it beforehand so it sounds natural when I drop it. I'll let you know how it goes!

I think you can declare salary and just mention you have no intention of working for the same or less(commiserate with duties of course.)
They may be able to force you to say what you made but they cannot force the expectation of striking a better deal than before of the table.
After all you would not leave one job for another without some candy in the new deal.

@jonny6pak: Yeah I dont think I said I thought it was illegal. But I am telling you that in my opinion, most employers will not divulge it when asked therefore most employers will not even bother to ask because they expect to hear "NYOB". :) Just my experience.

joeny1980

That is the same tactic I use, except I have never indicated that I would be willing to accept less. I always make it clear that I am going to be a value despite the higher salary. It isn't honest, but I feel the question is unfair. It's not like they are going to volunteer the salaries they have paid for people currently or previously in the position in question.@Nick Poulos:

ThirzaSanny

@glassdevaney: Sweet! I hope it works out for you. I'll check this post from time to time. Also, feel free to leave a message.

@glassdevaney: Oh, also I have a little more advice for you that may (hopefully) help.

Interviewers can be quite surprised when the interviewee is genuinely interested in something. I've had times where I have gotten second interviews at places where I wasn't at all qualified. I connected with the interviewer on a (professionally) personal level. People can go overboard with this sometimes and you have to know your bounds.

Some good things to talk about if they give you some time to freely talk about yourself/hobbies/etc would be:
If you have a history of doing/helping with charitable events,
If you have a unique family story that "warms the soul" in a way. (if you get what I mean)
If you have a unique (but not weird) hobby that will help the interviewer know who you as a person are.

In my experience, showing that you are in fact a human can have great results. Interviewers like to know that the person they hire is someone who is easy to get along with and actually can talk about something other than their work ethic for a little bit.

I hope everything works out for you. ( :

If I am asked 'what kind of salary are you looking for?', I always says "it's negotiable". Or I turn the question around and ask what they are offering. That has worked for me.

If asked directly what my current salary is, I dunno, no one has ever directly asked me that.

kenposan

@manducasexta:

Im going to agree with the other ones who replied above. This is the very best advice.

Brandon Smith

So let's say you are selling software. If a potential client asks you the price and you say "How much is it worth to you?" How's they conversation going to go? "You tell me, no you tell me first". If you've done your homework and they've done theirs, there's usually information to start the negotiation.

Win win, starts with a little information from both parties. You should understand their salary range, and they should understand what you'll need to say yes. Right now, employers may believe they can name their price, but the smart ones know if they don't pay you a fair salary, you'll be easy to recruit away for more money.

It is their business to know if you expect them to make a fair offer.

Nancy King

I don't understand how honesty can possibly hurt a salary negotiation. "Tipping your hand"? Are you playing poker with your employer? Do you intend to have a work relationship where you expect your employer to take advantage of you and you to take advantage of them?

I would say dodging the question, lying, dancing around it, etc all looks like crap to a project manager sitting across the table from an otherwise qualified applicant. All those tactics tell an employer that you're not actually interested in being part of the team but are interested in extracting the most you can until you find someone willing to offer you more.

I've been in an interview where I was embarrassed of my current salary. By telling my future project manager that I make very little compared to my skills and would be happy with X because X is what I feel I'm worth, I created a level of trust that guaranteed I got an offer. Had they ushered me out saying "you didn't make enough so we don't think you're good enough", I wouldn't have wanted to work there anyway.

Paul Lutskovsky