How Apple Co-Founder Steve Wozniak Gets Things Done
He travels the world, dances on TV, tinkers with hardware—oh, and designed the Apple I & II personal computers. Steve Wozniak answers our questions and shares his hacker-ish means of getting things done.
In computer-loving circles, he’s one of those figures you say needs no introduction—and then go ahead and introduce anyways. He and Steve Jobs started the Apple Computer Company from a bedroom, and then a garage, and Wozniak himself put together first the Apple I, then the widely successful and iconic Apple II, the computer most of today’s programmers grew up tinkering with as students. He left Apple in 1987 to indulge his mind in high-tech startups, technology programs for schools, and other projects. Most recently, he’s been seen earnestly, if not successfully, on the US version of Dancing with the Stars, and functions as a sort of homebrew/Hackintosh hero at sites like our sibling Gizmodo.
Wozniak spoke with Lifehacker on the phone yesterday, and was nice enough to indulge our prodding into his productivity habits, thoughts on hardware and hacking, and advice for young entrepreneurs.
Lifehacker: What gadgets and software applications do you use on a day-to-day basis?
Steve Wozniak: I have such a crowded life and crowded schedule. When people send me a link with a gadget, I’ll look at it and buy it if it looks interesting, but I don’t have time to check out everything I’d like to.
I do have a Nixie Tube watch, which I get a lot of benefit from. The biggest benefit in my life comes from my Segway, which I use everywhere I am. If I’m going to San Antonio, for example, I’ll load it in the car and just go everywhere with it. The other crucial thing is my Verizon wireless card, which I have to have because hotel Wi-Fi is just so unreliable.
… I have one MacBook Pro, with a 17-inch screen. I got into that and consciously separated myself from having 3, 4, 5 computers in my life, which just became too much. As far as the mobile devices, I’ve gone through all the different smartphones, all the different gadgets. For a while I was using a Razr for voice and messing with mobile devices, but now I’m travelling with an iPhone and a BlackBerry. I don’t use them very much for email, though, unless I’m detained for a long, unexpected stretch. I save answering my email for when I’m going to be in front of my nice, comfortable keyboard.
Lifehacker: What are you using to manage your email?
Steve Wozniak: The most important thing I use is Eudora, and that’s discontinued.
Lifehacker: Seriously? Eudora?
Steve Wozniak: The reason I do is, it has an incredible feature that every single mail client should have.
Any feature in the menu list, any action there, can be added as a button. I changed it so I have a vertical menu bar, so I can have tons and tons of pre-made buttons saved right where I want them up top, and I learn where those place are. You can script actions to the buttons, too, so I can quickly copy messages to my assistants. There are scripts I wrote for joke lists so I can forward a message, remove the brackets and formatting, and make sure all the original attachments are included, to a pre-defined “joke” group. Apple’s Mail app just isn’t scriptable enough to really handle my mail buttons.
Some of the buttons will re-direct mail with quote marks, or not. I’ve got another script that will actually customise a mail forward, like my own version of mail merge. So even if something’s going out to 400 people, I can set it to single out certain people and take away all the forwarding markings, so it looks like I singled out someone to send them mail. Which is, I hope, a nice little moment for them. (Laughs)
Lifehacker: So it’s more important for you to have software that fits your specific email style than having the latest and greatest.
Steve Wozniak: I think that’s fair to say, although I’m also a fan with sticking with the most standard software that millions of other users also use, because you get the benefit of all those other users’ problems and solutions. I’m a fan both ways. I think you get a great set of programs with Apple’s systems, but from day one, I’ve wondered why they didn’t just have a standard API that lets you script anything from the menu bar into a button. Why isn’t it just built into the operating system?
You’ve said that email and RSS feeds are a big part of your day, but you also get overwhelmed by email, according to your site. How do you try and handle all your input?
Steve Wozniak: I don’t ever have time to just browse, to see what’s new on my favourite sites. When I get a chance to sit down, I start by checking the average news, on Google News or another site. Once I’m up to date on that, and (I’ve) read about one full article, I’ll go through my RSS news feeds. Depending on how long I’ve been away, it could be up to three hours, but I’ll go as long as my brain doesn’t get mushed up, on my topics I’m into and the world. I save the email for last, and if I’ve been flying all day, I just sometimes can’t get to it.
I think that’s one of the reasons Twitter, and somewhat blogs, too, have become so appealing. I have a Twitter feed, but I rarely use it … a bit more, obviously, during Dancing with the Stars. But I don’t like to write little things. I like to write and explain things out …
… A long, long time ago, I made a long road trip to YellowStone, and I’d write to my friends and post updates, manually coding the HTML. I taught it to the kids in my classes, the HTML, then DreamWeaver, when that was coming out … Now that it’s so easy for the masses to do those kind of things, I’m moving away from it. That’s how it is for me.
Lifehacker: What’s your browser of choice?
Steve Wozniak: A few years ago, the people that I respected the most, the truest geeks, were using Firefox. Some sites that didn’t work for me in Safari did work for me in Firefox, so I started moving over, and I liked it. Then Safari started getting standardised, and working on more and more sites … I still keep Firefox around for when I need it, but I like to reduce, when I can, to the simplest tools that get me where I want to go, and that’s Safari right now.
Lifehacker: A lot of our readers want to know if you use Linux at all, and what you think about where it is today.
Steve Wozniak: I never got into Linux. I swear to God, it’s only lack of time. I’m past the years of my life where I can really dig into something like running a Linux system. I’m very sympathetic to the whole idea; Linux people always think the way I want to think.
Lifehacker: What can you tell us about your work with Fusion-io?
Steve Wozniak: I absolutely do not need a salary or a job, that’s the last thing I need. But smart people, I love to be around … It took (Fusion-io) a long time to have a meeting with me. They showed me how far they have come in visualising a new type of server architecture, and it’s two to 20 times better than any competing thing we could come up with. They’ve developed a streamlined way to incorporate all the little tricks you have to do, NAND, flash ram, … they had solved one after another of server’s technical problems, freed up space and made them run cooler. The technical people at MySpace were asking one question after another to us, and we had answers that were a lot better than they were expecting … they’ve just done some amazing things in making things run faster and better.
Lifehacker: You’ve said, or at least been attributed with the quote, “Never trust a computer you can’t throw out a window.”
Steve Wozniak: I’m not sure I said exactly that but, hey, I’ll take the attribution (laughs). I probably said something about a computer’s size, someone added that bit, and I said, “Yeah, that’s right.”
Lifehacker: Does that relate to how you see the future of server-based computer, “cloud computing”? Richard Stallman is certainly concerned about the privacy and security issues there.
Steve Wozniak: Well, I tend to agree with Stallman, but … I do think that it really is the end of the line. I don’t know if that’s good or bad for us, but it seems like the future direction.
Lifehacker: Is the future focus on servers part of why you’re working with Fusion-io?
Steve Wozniak: No, I’m with fusion-io because I’m more of a hardware guy. It’s a company that lets me have a close connection from hardware to firmware to drivers. What they’re doing is cutting out the “middle man” that gets in the ways of performance, and I’m very intrigued by that.
Lifehacker: We know you’re a fan of hacking in general, and Hackintoshes—or at least will sign a Dell Mini with OS X installed on it. A lot of our readers are, too. But I’m wondering if you think all the work that’s being done will eventually push companies to offer more open access to hardware and software, or if that kind of hacking will always be a 5 percent type of niche?
Steve Wozniak: I hate to say it, and Apple never likes it, but I love anything that’s hacker-oriented. I don’t like passing it onto others, or getting things for free. I don’t like stealing music one bit, at all …
I think it will always be a 5 percent niche, and I think it’s always been. When we first started with Apple computers, it was my dream that everyone would learn to program, and that was how they’d use their computer. But, obviously, that’s not the way it turned out. That’s where I think we see the advantages of open-source software. I think it’s a great thing, and a lot of companies are using mySQL, open-source software, and, well, Linux, too, to make the software work exactly the way they need it to.
That kind of hacking is the centre of my heart, that’s who I am.
Lifehacker: Do you still have a jailbroken iPhone? What kind of apps, unofficial and official, are you using on it?
Steve Wozniak: I was into jailbreaking earlier on, but then it came time with the firmware revisions to undo it, redo it, redo it again, I got so tired of worrying about losing everything on my unofficial setup. I’ve probably got 100 apps I’ve looked at, but the one I use the most tells me what to tip in every country I’m in (iTip). I did make a Skype call the other day from my iPhone, but then I found out AT&T might not let that onto their network, so we’ll see.
Lifehacker: If you were to give advice to someone starting their own technology-focused business right now, as opposed to when you built Apple as a young man, what advice would you give them? What would be different than from your own experience?
Steve Wozniak: You’d better have the technology knowledge to do it. I really urge you not to think you can start a whole company and business with just ideas on paper, because you’ll end up owning so few of those ideas. You have to create a working model, something that you can show people and demonstrate that it works, and then you can start building a future for it.
Lifehacker: Is that spoken from experience?
Steve Wozniak: It comes through, partly, experience. Whatever develops your skills—you did certain things in your life that prepared you well, that gave you an open mind, and you should stay closely connected to the technology when you start your company. People can say, “Well, I’m the business man, I’m out trying to make deal,” you might get your company going. But you’d better make sure you’re around some good technologists that you can trust, or your business doesn’t have direction. A lot of things seem to be worth almost no money. but if you do them very well, and they help people fill a need, there’s a great business you can build around that.
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Comments (AU Comments | US Comments)
Huh, he admitted to using a blackberry eh. Nice.
What a cool guy. He seems so human, dispite who he is. Rare is someone who can find success and not turn into a egomanicasshole.
GREAT READ! Many thanks!
ninjagin
Really great interview, with all the right questions. Kudos.
Beautiful interview, I really enjoyed his autobiography, iWoz. It was a very earthy read full of special memories, so very candid and different from many tech guru bios.
I enjoyed the interview. Thanks!
iatacs19
I enjoyed the interview. Thanks!
iatacs19
Wow, I have much more respect for Woz now that I know he isn't an Apple Fanboy or anything like I expected. He actually sounds like a cool guy to be around. I like the fact he uses a segway, that's awesome. Personally though, I'd walk instead :p
And great questions to ask, Lifehacker.
BrianB
Wow, I have much more respect for Woz now that I know he isn't an Apple Fanboy or anything like I expected. He actually sounds like a cool guy to be around. I like the fact he uses a segway, that's awesome. Personally though, I'd walk instead :p
And great questions to ask, Lifehacker.
BrianB
perhaps he meant "Never trust a computer that can through you out the window" rather than "Never trust a computer you can't through out a window" Woz knows Judgment Day is coming, hes warning us secretly. Resistance meeting one. My basement, bring canned goods and laser guns.
I think Woz is a great man, I read this interview all the way through and agreed with most everything he had to say. Go Woz!!
perhaps he meant "Never trust a computer that can through you out the window" rather than "Never trust a computer you can't through out a window" Woz knows Judgment Day is coming, hes warning us secretly. Resistance meeting one. My basement, bring canned goods and laser guns.
I think Woz is a great man, I read this interview all the way through and agreed with most everything he had to say. Go Woz!!
If every apple fanboy could take on elements of his view, then there would be no flame wars.
He has my utmost respect.
Woz is the man. What really stood out are his attempts at simplifying the complicated and growing technology world. We're not all Wozniaks, but less is more if you find the right balance, and we can improve productivity.
Woz is the man. What really stood out are his attempts at simplifying the complicated and growing technology world. We're not all Wozniaks, but less is more if you find the right balance, and we can improve productivity.
You guys did a great job on picking out the questions, bravo. Great interview altogether. I was expecting him to be a linux enthusiast, huh, guess not.
DarthZigger
You guys did a great job on picking out the questions, bravo. Great interview altogether. I was expecting him to be a linux enthusiast, huh, guess not.
DarthZigger
Wow, words from The Woz. Thanks Lifehacker for this little jewel of an interview. Great questions! I always loved the descriptions of the early Apple efforts described in Steven Levy's book, Hackers. This interview made my day!
Bennie B
Wow, words from The Woz. Thanks Lifehacker for this little jewel of an interview. Great questions! I always loved the descriptions of the early Apple efforts described in Steven Levy's book, Hackers. This interview made my day!
Bennie B
Thank you Lifehacker, I enjoyed reading this.
Short, sweet and to the point.
eLearnDev
perhaps he meant "Never trust a computer that can through you out the window" rather than "Never trust a computer you can't through out a window" Woz knows Judgment Day is coming, hes warning us secretly. Resistance meeting one. My basement, bring canned goods and laser guns.
I think Woz is a great man, I read this interview all the way through and agreed with most everything he had to say. Go Woz!!
perhaps he meant "Never trust a computer that can through you out the window" rather than "Never trust a computer you can't through out a window" Woz knows Judgment Day is coming, hes warning us secretly. Resistance meeting one. My basement, bring canned goods and laser guns.
I think Woz is a great man, I read this interview all the way through and agreed with most everything he had to say. Go Woz!!
Great read! +1 Respect for the Woz.
Great read! +1 Respect for the Woz.
*sigh* My admiration for him just grew exponentially! I want to hug him-does that sound too creepy?
HBICofslacking
*sigh* My admiration for him just grew exponentially! I want to hug him-does that sound too creepy?
HBICofslacking
Is "YellowStone" the 2.0 version of the national park? ;) Great interview... thanks!
Rivercat
Is "YellowStone" the 2.0 version of the national park? ;) Great interview... thanks!
Rivercat
D'awww, Woz. :3
Somebody should tell him Eudora's being redeveloped into an open source client based on Thunderbird.
My boss loves Eudora because of how it filters and its ability to create canned response e-mails very easily.
TomeOne
wow good interview!!! Woz rules!
I agree that was a pretty cool interview...pretty good questions too!
mxuribe
Thanks for the interview! (both to Woz and LH)
Great interview, thanks!
I was impressed to learn that he isn't quite as iEverything as I would've expected him to be.
The Dancing With the Stars bit was a good chuckle, too.
Wit
Great interview, thanks!
I was impressed to learn that he isn't quite as iEverything as I would've expected him to be.
The Dancing With the Stars bit was a good chuckle, too.
Wit
Alright San Antonio! Woohoo!
dzb
Alright San Antonio! Woohoo!
dzb
@Curves: I know, unlike his black turtleneck-wearing counterpart. :/
@Curves: I know, unlike his black turtleneck-wearing counterpart. :/
[en.wikipedia.org]
hes on the page for nixie tube!
DudeMG
[en.wikipedia.org]
hes on the page for nixie tube!
DudeMG
One more infinitely succesful, grounded human being who openly denounces pirating.
Are you people getting it yet?
Matt0505
One more infinitely succesful, grounded human being who openly denounces pirating.
Are you people getting it yet?
Matt0505
Great interview guys. Can we have a Part 2?
Mike Lott
Excellent interview of an excellent individual.
whiteflea
@AlexJAnder: ...a dash should never follow an ellipsis...
It's so funny that he's constrained as a user in the same ways we are -- the tediousness of re-jailbreaking an iPhone after updating firmware, not enough time for Linux... -- I would have imagined that he had some way of circumventing all of that.
good guy
He is a awesome man
Rory Cornell
@eagles3 thinks there are too many stars:
I am SO THERE! (I think my roomba is try to control my mind.)
Mike Ford
Thanks LH for this interesting interview!
Sorry, but his top productivity tool is a nixie watch? OK, 10-out-of-10 for steampunk-chic, but he's already carrying two smartphones that are perfectly capable of keeping time. And his Segway scooter? I don't know how that improves his productivity, but it certainly isn't improving his waistline.
HadwinCivet
@TomeOne that thing has nothing to do with Eudora rather than the name and couple of Qualcomm engineers paid to work on that.
Eudora's capabilities, feature set and especially amazing Applescript support is totally gone. I mean, not maintained.
IMAP and POP3 standards will _not_ change and it even has SSL support, so there is no reason to give it up.
They made the ultimate mistake by relying on Mozilla foundation but it is a bit off topic now.
Ilgaz
I am glad the beloved, wasted in hands of Qualcomm Eudora got mentioned by such an important figure. What a sad loss Eudora is, really. Not saying it won't work BTW, just change the default alert sound, it works even on Leopard.
KaylaHorse
I saw him do an interview a few years back and I noticed he had a huuuuuuge nixie watch... I always thought that was so funny.
SiktaCadmium
Nice to read an interview of a genuinely nice man. He could have a great big head but he is humble, simple, honest, and he cares.
What a great read! I enjoyed this so much!
@madog: easy, even.
madog
@gmjhowe: Yup. We all know that all Apple fans are running around screaming that Apple is the best and Windows users are only defending themselves from the onslaught of righteous hippies.
If it were only so east, then you may be right.
madog
@Matt0505: Here's a step ladder for you, so whenever you decide to step down from your high horse you don't hurt yourself.
Me and Steve Wozniak use EUDORA, you hear me! EU DOR A!!!! I am so excited I might pee in my pants.
What a wonderful interview. I am so in his fan club.
Susie Bright
Me and Steve Wozniak use EUDORA, you hear me! EU DOR A!!!! I am so excited I might pee in my pants.
What a wonderful interview. I am so in his fan club.
Susie Bright
Great interview and I love the comments from the readers. If you think you love him more after this interview lets not get into him teaching High School just because he loves to teach or the time he set up a fund to benefit some of those folks Steve Jobs left out on the limb when Apple went big time. He took a large part of his earnings and gave bonuses to receptionist and other entry level folks who had been there from the beginning that Steve did not think worthy.
Kahuna73
Great interview and I love the comments from the readers. If you think you love him more after this interview lets not get into him teaching High School just because he loves to teach or the time he set up a fund to benefit some of those folks Steve Jobs left out on the limb when Apple went big time. He took a large part of his earnings and gave bonuses to receptionist and other entry level folks who had been there from the beginning that Steve did not think worthy.
Kahuna73
Interviews like this are what interest me in hacking in general. I have liked to write code for a long time. I have been interested in technology for a long time. What cements my attitude about technology/computers/and life in general are interviews like these.
To explain...I may or may not agree with everything that comes out of the mouths of hacking greats like the Woz, Jobs, Raymond, et al. The fact that they stand up and say it, however, without really caring what people think of them for it is inspiring to me. Every time I see a true "geek" get ahead and get some respect, a part of me stands up to do the wave on the sidelines. I don't assume that my future humble offerings will make the difference to the "hacking" community that those of these giants have, but I do feel a sense of identification and belonging with the feelings and ideas that they express so publicly.
Great interview Woz and thanks for doing it LH. Bring on more!!!
Interviews like this are what interest me in hacking in general. I have liked to write code for a long time. I have been interested in technology for a long time. What cements my attitude about technology/computers/and life in general are interviews like these.
To explain...I may or may not agree with everything that comes out of the mouths of hacking greats like the Woz, Jobs, Raymond, et al. The fact that they stand up and say it, however, without really caring what people think of them for it is inspiring to me. Every time I see a true "geek" get ahead and get some respect, a part of me stands up to do the wave on the sidelines. I don't assume that my future humble offerings will make the difference to the "hacking" community that those of these giants have, but I do feel a sense of identification and belonging with the feelings and ideas that they express so publicly.
Great interview Woz and thanks for doing it LH. Bring on more!!!
Whats this article got to do with gettings things done?
SharanyaAutesion
I would love to see him come back to Apple when Jobs is gone and bring some reality back to the game.
cliffordthered
I would love to see him come back to Apple when Jobs is gone and bring some reality back to the game.
cliffordthered
@Curves: Is the last word for a certain guy named Steve Jobs? Man, you better watch out. There are zealots here who would declare an iFatwa on you for that!!!
Shashank Agarwal
@Curves: Is the last word for a certain guy named Steve Jobs? Man, you better watch out. There are zealots here who would declare an iFatwa on you for that!!!
Shashank Agarwal
@eagles3 thinks there are too many stars: DUDE I KNOW! Just yesterday when I was logging out of a program on my computer, it said "have a nice day". Just how did it know that it was day?...
TurboTexas
@TurboTexas: The time on the computer. How else?
Great interview! :)
fellinahole
@HadwinCivet: Dude...I'm not going to yell, but lay off Woz. He's paid his dues, he can do what he wants nowadays. I don't care if the man thinks his coolest gadget is a hacked Casio calculator watch that he's connected via bluetooth to his stereo (actually...that would be a pretty sweet hack), he did his time, he's innovated his projects, show some respect.
Or did you invent an industry changing electronics system without me noticing and I should lay off you?
Lupus_Yonderboy
Bravo. Awesome interview of an awesome personage. Wish that there were about 50 more Woz(es) in the world.
Lupus_Yonderboy
@Josh W: Every bit makes a difference, and every bit helps. Good job, and good job thinking for yourself and not agreeing with everything that comes out of the mouths of the greats-you'll go far...even if you don't get anywhere.
Lupus_Yonderboy
@Shashank Agarwal: No, its not aimed at anyone in particular, but, if the black turtleneck fits..... ;)
Very Nice review, well thought questions (even those inspired (compliments) ) and great explanation of why he uses particular software and not another. Great Read once again, Thanks
LiviaHog
frankly, interesting ,and some good point for me,I like it .thanks
MeganAlexiares
I loved this piece.
It seems like he's a fun guy. He even consented to making "Woz-i-sodes". In this one, he's in a dog outfit:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqM0B7UVQmY
CarlCaba?ero
I highly recommend it too, just for the early years sections, and the pranks.
ToinetteGiggles
from his kathy griffin appearance...clearly the biggest bonus he has is being able to hire college age hot college assistants;)
Justifan
Yeah, this was cool. He seems like a super cool guy.
andthepickles
Yeah, this was cool. He seems like a super cool guy.
andthepickles
@Acealecto: Why wouldn't he? Lol.
andthepickles
@Acealecto: Why wouldn't he? Lol.
andthepickles
@Curves: I don't think Steve let success go to his head, I just think he has always been like that.
notme93
I wonder if he had to pay for his MBP. He opted for the anti-glare screen! It'd to cool to know his general opinions about present-day Apple, and his likely negative view on netbooks.
Very interesting interview! Great choice of questions, really enjoyed it.
"...so I can quickly copy messages to my assistants." Assistants. And total independence from a salary. Shouldn't this go on the Premium Lifehacker site that gives solutions for the busy lifestyles of the idle rich? Nevertheless, an admirable and likable guy, given his circumstances (i.e., fame and wealth didn't go to his head--how many of us can be sure we wouldn't be jerks in his circumstances?).
ShaliniRoger
He sounds like a happy person... and I'm glad to see that. He deserves to be.
SansoneNoppit
How long is Woz out of real biz? Would expect Woz prefer incher screenez? But Woz doesn't care he loves his 17 incher.
NaldoThymoetes
@ HBICofslacking Why there's no I agree button here? I completely agree with you !
SnehaCicurinus
Best thing about him: happy guy. That's the kind of folks we need. Mi esposa and I could see it when he was dancing: he plunged in and just wiggled, devil-may-care, big ol-grin, gleaming eyes. It was surely a sight to behold, and we could tell, that's the way the man LIVES. Power to the Woz!
Excellent interview, Lifehacker. What a great read.
Stephen Barnes
Woz, You are The man. Respect . Wish i was one of your students.
Khalid Feddoul