Healthy Menu Options Trick Your Mind Into Ordering Fries

Guilty.

Dave Bunting

It's hard enough to get people to eat their veggies, if some fries help, so be it.

[www.trainerpack.com]

Vez27

I think we are just hard wired to love the potatoes.

SexCpotatoes

Which is why Americans need to stop feeling guilty about eating and have a mature relationship with food, like the people in other parts of this world.

All this bitching about "carbs are bad for you", "eggs are bad for you", whatever is utter nonsense. Just look at the food people in other countries eat. The American understanding about food and drink is totally immature and frankly moronic.

Invoking the Pollan mantra: "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants." since it is totally relevant here.

Ahahahahahaha!!!!

Deprong Mori

@Vez27: I think you might have misunderstood the study. It's not that people ordered salad AND fries. It's that when picking ONE option, they were more likely to choose fries when the menu also had salad.

If it were a random selection, then they should have seen a decrease in fries when moving from the 3 option menu to the 4 option menu (33% versus 25%) but instead the fries were more likely to be chosen when the salad was also there.

--Jason

Jason

Wait. Fries aren't vegetables? What about ketchup?

rockhopper

@Deprong Mori: Just when I've been agreeing with you more often than not, you have to go and invoke the Pollan mantra again. I swear, that's the smuggest thing anybody has ever said about dieting. In general, it is true, but like everything in life, the devil's in the details.

One Researcher suggests... is this what's passing off as scientific research these days?!

Maybe when you see the fries, your brain remembers that your tongue subconsciously envisions them with ketchup, then the synaptic overload from the salt recognition subsystem (SRS) is inadvertently re-wired because of that pencil lead you got stuck in your hand when you were in 4th grade which infuses thoughts of erasers into every smell that you have thereby producing a sub-sub-sub conscious aversion to salad with ketchup on it, so you think it's gross, because who eats salad with hamburgers, then you think maybe Amy Whinehouse does and that you don't want to be THAT skinny, so you "biggie size" the meal and wash it all down with a Diet Coke.

Maybe college students JUST LIKE FRIES BETTER THAN SALAD!

Maybe the researcher was a bewildered freshman trying to over-analyze everything and putting into print whatever nonsense comes into his/her head.

Maybe I'm a bewildered researcher!

TheOtherHalf

What doesn't kill you only delays the inevitable.

I say, eat what you want! Live how you want!

cha0tic

@TheOtherHalf:

And maybe you didn't read the story.
Here, I'll dumb it down:
Person with 3 side choices should equal 33.3% fries
Person with 4 side choices should equal 25% fries

Though we don't know what percentage actually chose the fries out of the 3 sides, we know that the percentage was 3x the amount when 4 sides were offered. So it looked something like this (theoretically):
Person with 3 side choices picks fries 33.3% of the time
Person with 4 side choices picks fries 99.9% of the time

The point is the percentage should have went down, not skyrocket upwards.

In closing, I think this is just as valid a study as any other. It's psychology, not home economics.

hansky84

@TheOtherHalf: Took the words right out of my mouth, and the Diet Coke was a nice touch to boot.

@Deprong Mori: I have to agree with everything you said, outside of the Pollan mantra. While it's not false, it doesn't actually push the lifestyle change people need to have that healthy relationship with food. The concept has been turned into a one statement diet and left to sit with every other junkie diet concept out there, namely the ones you mentioned. It's not a false statement, but we should be pushing the actual lifestyle changes and not the catch phrases.

jonny6pak

I completely agree with this study. I used to eat quite healthy. But once I got married I started to eat steak more, pick the fattiest (read: delicious) items, etc. I don't blame my wife, but she was a health nut and always gave me a hard time about what I ate - but I wasn't that bad! Because of that I think I bought the big steak when we went out.

I hate the idea of ruining a perfectly good meal with a salad. However, I would eat fast food and fries upwards of 5 times a week. So something really had to change.

I wrote about what it took to start to make some healthier choices and cut out the fast food here: [www.digitaltrainer.ca]

How about "people just like fries more than salad" instead? I know that in order to get published you need to concoct an overly complicated theory but come on.. fries will always be selected over salad. Especially by college students. They taste better!

SatyaLelex

In an imaginary world, and people were offered a 50 calorie, No fat plate of fries.. or a 50 calorie , no fat salad most people would take the fries.

spacelord

@Deprong Mori: Yay you.

Sometimes it seems as though the vast majority of adult women in the US and an increasing percentage of men have some kind of eating disorder or another.

It's disturbing how many people just assume that because I'm female, I know what it's like to, say, maintain secret stashes of junk food and binge on ice cream late at night, or that I care deeply about fat and calorie content to the exclusion of everything else. (And no, I'm not now nor have I ever been overweight, so I'm pretty sure they aren't hints.)

The perfect illustration is that we've adopted the term 'decadent,' a term describing a state of moral decay, to describe foods that are high in fat or sugar content.

We've become so pathologically self-centered as a culture that we have coopted the powerful and damning concept of decadence to describe something as inane as fattening foods.

spanky

Last time I went to the States, the size of a "side" of fries was enough to be a complete meal (albeit not very healthy one) for Europe.

Never heard of the "Pollan mantra" but the "Not too much" part seems to a sensible (and generally unheeded) piece of advice.

mrsilver

@this article for the origin of the phrase.

@Deprong Mori: Seriously, what's with the braying at the end?

I eat healthy most of the time and cook almost every meal for myself. I always go for the fry option. I can make a damn good salad at home, but I can't make good fries. I could if I started deep frying, but to make it worthwhile I'd have to deep fry a lot of stuff, and that would be way less healthy than ordering fries once in awhile.

louiedog

@mrsilver: I guess you haven't been to Germany.

@cha0tic: I agree. I just wish that more people would just mind their own damn business.

@James: Rib eye... There is no substitute.

You don't win friends with salad.

grandzu

@hansky84: Alright, let me dumb his response down for you since you don't understand.

He wasn't directly disputing the results but rather that it is one study. Multiple studies will provide more substantial evidence than just one study done by one man. What you said is all right as far as the study is concerned but the 'theoretical' reasons to why those subjects choice one and not the the other is still in question. Thus, it is psychology and needs more research to be considered qualified scientific research.

@annexgb: Ketchup is a fruit! Well a fruit sauce anyways. Kinda like strawberry jelly in a strange way (it is actually in the berry family). But yeah, fries with ketchup = Fruit and vegetables. Sounds healthy to me.

I'm sitting here at my desk eating a yogurt, some cottage cheese, and a few slices of pepperoni, and you come along showing me pictures of curly fries. CURSE YOU LifeHacker, CURSE YOU!!!!

@SatyaLelex: That doesn't jibe with the fact that the presence of salad made people order fries more often.

The "I thought about a salad" motivation seems far fetched enough, though, that it was probably the conclusion they were attempting to reach. That part's weird.

Also kind of far fetched, maybe, but french fries are usually a given. Most places that offer french fries do a decent job at it. Not so much so with salads or other options, though. If a restaurant has a very large menu, odds are pretty good that many of those options are poorly made afterthoughts. Salads in a bag, probably frozen, pre-formed nuggets, microwaved potatoes, things like that. I might be more likely to choose fries at a place with more options just because it's something that an overextended kitchen is more likely to do fairly well.

It's also worth noting that 'healthy' is subjective. Sure, for most people, less fat and more vegetables is a good idea, but making some universal pronouncement that salads are more 'healthy' isn't entirely accurate.

spanky

Most salads in restaurants have enough pre-applied dressing to be less healthy than fries. Maybe people who love oil will order salad and fries.

orlo

@Mesothelioma:
And let me dumb what he was saying down for...
oh..
no wait you got it spot on.

hm ..
looks around - nothing to dumb down I guess.
Damn I'm always late on these things.
:o)

SeventhExile

I'm not sure why you'd want a salad with a hamburger as most burgers already have lettuce, tomatoes, etc on them. That being said, I hate french fries because so many places push them with meals , I would much rather have a baked potato.

ChibaCityCowboy

@James: Now that it's just the two of us, for some reason I keep finding New York steaks on sale for three bucks at the market. It's hard to stick with a totally healthy diet with that kind of distraction. :)

The second I started dating a vegetarian, my meat intake increased exponentially. Same principle?

Mr_Human

I used to order fries, before I got a new side effect from a medication that made all fried potatoes taste disgusting. They look disgusting now too (weird I know). Salads at restaurants are just kind of gross because they have way too much dressing and not everyone likes that much dressing.

SableHemlock

@hansky84: I think you dumbed it too far. You see, a person deciding what he/she wants to eat is never really random, so when you say: "Person with 3 side choices should equal 33.3% fries
Person with 4 side choices should equal 25% fries" shows a lack of understanding of how semantic evidence is quantified in psychological study, otherwise you would have omitted the "should equal" part of your statement.

Not understanding how some things work isn't a personal flaw, until you start passing judgment on the validity of the criticisms someone else is leveling at the study itself.

Looks like Freud's theory of the subconscious and conscience coming to agreement is at work here.

Gilbert Capulong

But a salad and French fries is much better for you than french fries and chicken nuggets... obviously people who are thinking somewhat health-minded would do that.

MichaelBrazell

@hansky84: And what else do we know about this? What was the sample size? Has the test been repeated with different samples?

It could very well be that group B has more fry lovers than group A, or, if they were the same group, that they just didn't want fries on day 1, but wanted fries on day 2. Without knowing more about the methodology, and seeing a few repeat tests, it's really hard to draw a conclusion like this, especially when social sciences are involved.

@SableHemlock: Did you ever think of ordering your salad at a restaurant with the dressing on the side...? That lets you control how much goes into your mouth.

distortedloop

@mrsilver: "Never heard of the "Pollan mantra" but the "Not too much" part seems to a sensible (and generally unheeded) piece of advice."

I'm so sick of hearing the "Pollan Mantra." I agree with you, the bottom line, is the "not too much" part. My mantra has been "calories count, so count calories" for decades.

distortedloop

@HeartBurnKid, creepy morbid freak: And what about different times of day? Fries are more of an on-the-go type of food, whereas salads and baked potatoes are more "leisurely", i-have-time-to-sit-down-for-a-meal... kinds of foods. Nuggets are basically a second entree. When I was in college, my meal choices were influenced by how much time I had to eat. If I had a class or a test to get to, I would have opted for fries. Evenings or weekends, a salad may have been in order.

hepatace

@Puffs: You two had to be clever and bring THAT up, didn't you.

Fruit or vegetable depends on who you ask and in what context. Botanists, chefs, a couple of US States and the 1893 Supreme Court all have/had varying opinions and definitions.

distortedloop

@spanky:
Reality check!

The percent of noninstitutionalized adults that are obese in the US is roughly 32% of the population. Toss in the number of people that are overweight, and it more than doubles to 66%. People with eating disorders? 2-3 percent, and that's a generous figure.

I also take issue with your suggestion that decadence is a powerful concept and the implication that it's limited to morality. That suggests the existence of moral absolutes (which I realize is neither here nor there, but I do take issue with it), and it further ignores that the foods we call decadent do indeed instigate the decay of health.

I'm sick and tired of all the talk about how worrying about the quality of one's food constitutes egotism or that we should all just accept ourselves as we are and not strive to physically improve ourselves. Think of what you're saying for a moment. Consider who you might be empowering, on some level, to maintain a very unhealthy lifestyle.

@grandzu: win!

This is stupid: if you're going to be eating a baked potato, the last thing you'd want is more potato on top of that, so you order the salad instead. It's not about perceptions of health, it's just a question of avoiding all that potato.

YangMusca

@DisposableInterloper:

I think you have a funny idea of what eating disorders are. It's not just anorexia, but also binging (with or without purging) and compulsive eating. Most people who are overweight are that way because of some kind of disordered eating.

And you're being very disingenuous about the concept of decadence. Feel free to look it up. It generally refers to a state of moral or physical decay.* I think it's a pretty fair assumption that people aren't advertising chocolate cakes as being in a physical state of decay. I'm also pretty sure that nobody but you has ever pretended to parse 'decadent chocolate cake' as 'chocolate cake that will instigate the decay of health.'

At any rate, it's not about discouraging people from living better. It's the way we're going about it that isn't working. People are obsessive and guilt-ridden about food, which leads to widespread disordered eating; and as a society, we're a bunch of nagging busybodies, constantly criticizing others' personal habits and snarking on people when we perceive them as failing to act in their best interests.

* There are specific meanings for art and literature as well, but those don't apply either.

spanky

@Natnie: *Potato

Natnie

@Deprong Mori: Potatoe slices cooked in vegetable oil... all plant.

Natnie

This is a crap of a jingle. Weather your in the hig or in the hat, there's always a truth to be told in the bottom of the bag. So stuff it, eat an olive, and throw me another won. I cun't tell you how terrible the terlet must be, because I DUN'T KNOW. And I'm not the only one. Not any more, at least.

DickassMcDougan

@spanky:
Right, 66% of Americans are overweight because they have compulsive overeating disorder. That makes perfect sense. /sarcasm

Further, I stand by my defense of the use of "decadent" - language evolves, and usage changes. Chocolate cake, if you don't limit it to a bit now and again, will cause harm. It's thus decadent. Simple as that.

If you do prefer to associate decadence with sin, the idea that eating chocolate cake is sinful is a good thing, because again, unless you're eating it as a small treat, you're committing a transgression against your own body.

Personally, I think food guilt is a good thing - it just needs an educated populace for it to be effective. If you'd look at some the the frighteningly bad statistics about Americans' level of education, I'd say there's a lot to work towards.

and when someone proves to me that fries are a bad food, I'll think of this article as just a little bit less wasteful...this belongs in the remains of the day at best.

Zack Zrull

Okay, can someone please spare me the torture and please tell me what EXACTLY is that dish in the picture? The picture of the article I mean... it looks sooo delicious!!

Thank you!

Rawnnie

@Natnie: yum :D

To get back to the topic, I think if you eat fast food as often as you should (which is to say, maybe once a month?) you can certainly allow yourself to get fries with it.

Lody

@ShannaraFan: That is quite a random assortment of things o.O Are you having the pepperoni with the yogurt? (I hope not! haha! ew!)

Lody

lol
fries are made from potatoes which are carbohydrates and make me feel sated. salad leaves me hungry most of the time.
why should i order food that may leave me hungry?

I'd stick to fries AND salad :)

It's because if you had the option for fries and you took the unfilling salad, you'd feel like you're getting ripped off. Plain and simple economics.

JordanJibsheet

I have another theory -- without a presence of salad on the menu, students had a higher awareness of the carb-heavy options. with the salad included, variety increases and you begin to pay less attention. it may not have anything to do with health. I would have preferred a more controlled study in which the "salad" option was replaced on Menu 1 not by "nothing" but a different (but less healthy) option to ensure variety.

I never did get why people obsess so much about eating healthy. What's the point of living life if you can't enjoy it? I'd rather die at 50 of heart failure than spend every moment of my life up to the age of 150 obsessing about how many carbs I'm taking in, how much exercise I'm getting, and all that rot.

@mikekearn: Come back when you're pushing 50 and tell us if your attitude has changed about you'd rather die at 50. I agree that some people carry healthy eating to an unhealthy extreme, there are those who do the opposite as well. If you define the enjoyment of your life by how decadent the food you eat is, then you're missing a lot.

Additionally, whatever age you die at, the quality and pleasure of your life is probably greatly enhanced if you eat right and exercise. Imagine being able to have sex without being short of breath, or to look in the mirror without shame at your huge gut, or to play catch with the kids without tiring out in 5 minutes. It all goes hand in hand. Your mileage may vary.

distortedloop